Galvanising

[MINESAPINT]

I am considering purchasing a rear crossmember for my 110 and having it galvanised prior to having it fitted. I assume they are not available already galvanised. The question is as the new crossmember will be painted what preparation will be needed prior to galvanising. I know the galvanisers dip it in acid & wonder if this is enough to remove the paint?

Additionally I am intending to galvanise all the door hinges and assume they are cast iron and wonder if it is possible to galvanise cast iron?

Thanks

MINESAPINT

[Les Henson]

The crossmember will have to be shot blasted or similar to remove the paint - I'm not sure an acid dip would remove all of it. You will have to remove the galvanising where you are going to weld it on or the weld will be very poor and zinc flu is definitely not nice . I'm pretty sure cast iron can be glavanised.

Les.

[lrfarmer]

hi

the acid won't remove any of the paint, and if there any paint on it when it hits the zinc it will fire molten metal all over the place

Tim

[MINESAPINT]

Obviously I need to source a rear crossmember already galvanised or prior to it being painted.

Any ideas?

Thanks

MINESAPINT

[Scotian]

Try these people Strathearn Engineering Ltd Tel: 01764 663020. They are based near Perth (but postage wont be hard for just a cross member) and they specialise in Galvanised Chasis changes and parts there of .

[MINESAPINT]

Thanks Scotian, Did ring Strathearn Engineering and they are unable to supply the crossmember unpainted. They are painted when they buy them. They did advise however that I do not need to worry about sending a painted one to be galvanised as the acid removes all the paint anyway. They made the example that they refurbish old cast iron gates that have 100 years worth of paint of all types on them including hammerite then having completed the repair send the gate to be galvanised and all the old paint is no match for the hydrochliric acid.

MINESAPINT

[Litch]

I am 99.99% certain that someone already sells galvanised rear cross-members, I can't recall who it is but if you look through a few of the magazines I am sure you will spot the advert.

Apart from the well known problems about welding galvanised surfaces etc I am slightly confused about fitting a galvanised cross-member to a painted chassis.

I know the cross-member is one of the first thing to rot out (I have had to replace them on my old S111 and my 101) but more often than not this is down to the thing not being rust-proofed and maintained properly in the first place (i.e. regularly cleaned to remove any trace of muck & road-salt etc).

Assuming the original cross-member has lasted between 10-15 years, a normal replacement could be expected to last a similar amount of time by when I should imagine a new chassis is on the cards as there are plenty of other rot-spots on a chassis which is not correctly maintained. I should imagine that by that time you could end up with a perfect rear cross-member attached (hopefully) to a shot main chassis so the extra expense would have been for nothing.

What is my reasoning for this? My own 90 is a 1986 model and the chassis is original with no rust or repairs.

It is Waxoiled and I make a point of cleaning the chassis with a normal garden hose everytime I wash the vehicle, in the winter when there is salt on the roads it is not uncommon for me to spend 10-minutes washing the underside every other weekend or so.

What this means is that my original chassis has lasted 22-years so far and I see no reason what given the same amount of attention it will not last the same again. Of course if I have to replace the chassis for some reason I will go down the galvanised route as I think they are an excelent idea but as to mixing the parts, I am not convinced it is necessary or an advantage.

[MINESAPINT]

Litch,

Thanks for advice. It seems I am guilty of not looking after the vehicle correctly. I have bought 7 new 109's/110's over the last 25 years but have never kept one as long as this one which will be 8 this year. I cannot ever remember getting one MOT'd before. I do wash the vehicle regularly but have never paid any particular attention to the chassis. The rear crossmember has not got to the stage of MOT fail but it is terribly rusty in spite of me painting and undersealing it a couple of years ago. Unfortunately I cannot turn the clock back and waxoyl it retrospectively. Additionally I have been caught out with the doors and the body cappings on this vehicle. It needs 3 new doors which had I waxoyled internally when new would probably have gone on for many more years. It also needs new body cappings which are running in rust!

Currently to put the vehicle back into an acceptable condition I will not expect to get much change out of £2K.

My plan is to remove my bumper, body cappings, hinges, steering guard, various brackets, tow bar etc and send the lot to the galvaniser with the new rear crossmember. All would be galvanised at the galvanisers minimum charge of £60 + VAT (for 100Kg). Having said that my wife heard me talking to the galvniser on the phone today and said "why don't you just go and buy a new Land Rover". Cos all the problems will start all over again, but apparently not if look after it better!

MINESAPINT

[Litch]

"I do wash the vehicle regularly but have never paid any particular attention to the chassis."

I could probably be considered guilty of the opposite! I spend more time on the underside than on the bodywork but that is not to say I don't keep the paintwork clean, just that I am more aware of how chassis rot can set in if it isn't looked after (especially in the hard to reach and inaccessable places).

I experienced on my earlier LR's how the chassis just rots away when muck is allowed to build up, these areas never dry out and before you know where you are you have serious rot problems. By keeping on top of the situation and never allowing a build-up of muck the chassis can dry properly and of course you can also see the protective coating properly and know when it needs a touch-up or re-application. A byproduct is that when you are laying under the vehicle carrying out maintenance or repairs you don't get a constant stream of muck falling in your face, certainly the MOT tester appreciates it and often remarks on the condition.

Don't get me wrong. I am not some sad git who washes the vehicle as soon as a spec of dirt gets on it (if you saw my vehicle you would know that is not true) but I consider it essential maintenance and on a vehicle I have owned for some time and intend keeping indefinately, I know I am saving myself work & expense in the long term.

[tacr2man]

My opinion goes with the galvanising only any point if done from new, with the newer defenders i.e from the 110 to defender changepoint, if you want it to last like the old series type its a must as the spec deterioration, (thinner ali etc) is turning them into the fords they have become.

I would not buy a new landrover even if it was financialy viable, as I cant see where it would be an improvement other than fuel economy over what I have now. When I rebuilt a series 2a back in early 80's with a new gen LR chassis I had it galvanised and they siad that 30 years shouldnt be a problem .JMHO

[MINESAPINT]

Maybe the deterioration of my vehicle in 7 years is my fault/maybe its not! I was previously unaware of the extreme vunerability of the parts that have let me down, chassis, doors, some bodywork & body cappings. I realise now I could have done something to the doors & chassis but feel also the vehicle could have been built better. I do not see what I could have done about the body cappings & the corrosion they have transmitted to the bodywork.

I reckon there was a golden age for Land Rovers and instead of operating a policy of continual improvement, Land Rover have chosen to cut corners to the detriment of the newer vehicles. I have vowed never to buy another new Land Rover (although my wife has other ideas) but am quite sure I will own one for the rest of my life. It is just a question of deciding how to achieve this. Unfortunately I do not have the facilities or expertees to rebuild one but did have a quote to have a 109 rebuilt onto a galv chassis which was £12K+.

In the meantime will have to keep this one going until decisions are made.

MINESAPINT

[Litch]

The 1970's were very bad years for LR's as British Leyland were sourcing cheap steel which caused terrible rot problems in the following years as anyone with a S111 will tell you, they definately didn't last as long as the S11 & S11A's that went before them. I think the 1980's were pretty good and early 90/110's quite solid as the steel was better quality and things like the body-capping were still galvanised but when you come to the 1990's I think that the level of quality on the utility models dropped off.

With regards to the capping I know why that rusts through so quickly.

About 8-years ago I bought a complete new body for my 90, in fact the only bodywork that remains from the original vehicle is the seat-box! Because I intend keeping the vehicle indefinately I had it painted in 2-pack with all the panels off the vehicle so that every part of every panel was painted. When I removed the cappings from the rear-tub (it came as one piece) I found that not only were they a lot thinner than I thought they would be but they also had only a thin coating of primer applied before being riveted to the tub so only the bits that show would actually get a colour coat in normal situations. Needless to say I had them painted all over along with the rest of the body and then applied Waxoil to the hidden surfaces before being riveted back into place. 8-Years on they now have some surface rust where they have been scratched but there is no sign of deep corrosion.

With doors etc it is not actually rust of the door frames that causes me concern (I treated them to plenty of Waxoil after they had been painted) but corrosion of the alloy. Warwick 4x4 used to sell doors that had a plastic barrier between the steel frame and the alloy skin to prevent corrosion but I don't know if these are still available, all my body-panels were genuine and I can now detect alloy corrosion starting to form in the usual places.

I think there is a lot we can do to improve the longevity of our vehicles and I certainly believe a galvansied chassis is the way to go but if (like me) there is no real reason to replace your existing one then proper maintenance is key. Having said that, if I find that my meticulous cleaning has not been sufficient and I detect the start of rot in the chassis that requires welded repairs, the welder is staying put in the garage and a new galvanised chassis will be ordered immediately.

[MINESAPINT]

Just come across an interesting and pertinent web site but I do not know how to put a link to it.

It is Adrian Redmonds Land Rover Pages and he is talking about his dissapointment about his 1999 110 with pictures. Very similar problems to mine.

MINESAPINT

[101sean]

I have a 2000 110CSW, the previous owners of which didn't bother with niceties like regular services and bothering LR with corossion issues which was reflected in the price I paid.

I've got some corossion on the cappings and the back door is looking terminal with extensive electrolytic corossion. This was caused by the door splititing from top to bottom from the weight of the spare wheel and water getting in through the cracked window seal. Even the wiper motor was us through filling with water! Must have been going on well within the warranty period.

I had a 109 SW built in the good old strike prone early 70s, when I scrapped it I found a tin of sardines hidden in a closed panel. Bit of a waste of time sabotaging an already rattly vehicle! The comment about steel is right, how many 74 - 79 series Land Rovers do you see around.