Random 109 Idea

[Corrode Finger]

Been inspired by rogue troopers build, with the road going 'v12 hybrid', however, i dont have the components or the desire to copy that build, but it has influenced some ideas. Dont get me wrong, i am impressed, and copying is supposed to be the highest form of flattery.

I just dont fancy a V12 ........ or coils for this idea.

Basically, how easy would it be to lower a 109?

I am after a simple, safe, cheap(?) effective solution....... the offroading ability will be irrelevant.

Would the handling improve, whats a 109 like relatively speaking anyway.... in handling terms?

Also how heavy would a standard 109 softop be?

I know that most of you wont get this, but .... sorry!!

[FridgeFreezer]

You're limited by the spring mounts, they hang under the chassis at the front so unless you re-jig the chassis or move the mounts outboard (to interfere with other bits potentially) you'll struggle I think.

The rear would be easier but still involves moving the chassis mounts up.

Stage 1 would be to use flat springs a-la Transit etc., that should be fairly easy and would lose you probably an inch or two.

[Astro_Al]

Tiny wheels and alter the gearing to suit? Probably simplest.

Al

[bishbosh]

I just dont fancy a V12 .

W16 then?

. or coils for this idea.

eh? Going back in time?

how easy would it be to lower a 109?

I'm confused.....

the offroading ability will be irrelevant.

Blasphemer!!

Would the handling improve,

what without coils???

Did I help...?

[FridgeFreezer]

Agree - do what the racers do and put small wheels on:

[Corrode Finger]

Did I help...?

Yes lots...... i knew someone would react that way!!

yes, smaller wheel/ tyre combo.... well i dont want 750's let alone bigger.... prob 205 size or less.... needs to 'look' normal at first glance!

ie.... no big blingy wheels etc

Lowering blocks?

As in mk1/ mk2 escort style?

As for front..... it would be a tube idea like rogue trooper hinted at, no driven axle as this complicates things???

[sheeppimp]

I've got some spare cardboard boxes, you could cut out a landrover shape and stick it on any old eurobox - job done

hat, coat, gone

[Astro_Al]

Just how low do you 'need' it?

Look up how people raise them then do everything the opposite.

Less curved springs, shorter shackles, shorter spring mounts, smaller tyres etc.

How about anti-roll bars etc?

Al.

P.S. W-H-Y ???

[FridgeFreezer]

Lowering blocks are OK but you end up with very little travel, which may or may not be a problem.

[callum]

upside down portals

[Corrode Finger]

upside down portals

already considered, too heavy, too pricey and a waste of perfectly good portals, and too low geared.

To answer other points, articulation is not a 'requirement', i geuss on the 'how low'... couple of inches, after swapping onto 205 size tyres from 750's.

swapping down to 205's from 750's will drop it 2 inches( roughly), then drop it on the leafs by another 2 inches.

Idea is to keep it simple, hence avoiding anything with too complicated suspension, and anti roll bars etc.

Al,

too answer WHY..... i give you why not......

just fancy the idea of something totally 'opposite' to a mud monster!!

Like the 109/ land rover shape and rwd....... create a bit of a road weapon that people would not expect!!

[FridgeFreezer]

Surely better off starting with a 110 V8, cheaper, has all the right drivetrain, and coils which can be chopped down relatively easily even if that would be a horrific bodge.

[Corrode Finger]

Surely better off starting with a 110 V8, cheaper, has all the right drivetrain, and coils which can be chopped down relatively easily even if that would be a horrific bodge.

V8 is too obvious, also dont want permanant 4wd or the weight of the transfer box..... its pointless for this idea.

Also dont really want to 'butcher' the coils..... was the first thought, but a leafer seems better, stiffer for starters, old escorts work well on leafs!!..... all those old ex military 109's!!

[FridgeFreezer]

Whatever you're doing it's not going to be simple then. Perhaps starting with a big BMW or Volvo estate and just nailing some Series panels onto it would be a better bet.

Ex-MOD stuff seems expensive for what it is and it's usually so scabby and abused it's more work than just buying something half decent. Also MOD 109's have lifted suspension mounts as standard so you're starting off at a disadvantage (for your purposes).

Old escorts work OK on leafs but a lot of people 4-link the rear ends, bear in mind they are a tad different to LR, just because they use leafs doesn't mean they have much more in common.

With small tyres and Series axles you're going to be very low geared, I've got a Stage 1 back axle if you need it.

Coils are only soft because LR use long-travel soft coils for off-road, if you whack some different ones on you can really stiffen things up, OME ones are available in silly rates.

[sotal]

Saw something like this on another forum:

http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php?t=82468

Some Pics from the thread:

[Astro_Al]

What is wrong with cutting the coils? You're happy to modify the chassis completely, but not shorten a set of springs???

The V8 is too obvious, but you want to show boy racers up at the lights in a car that weighs twice as much as theirs?

LT230 is too ehavy, but a series transfer box is not?!? (My point being that they can both be removed or not as required).

You don't HAVE to have permanent 4WD with an LT230.

Its not the presence of leaves or the coils that dictate the stiffness of the suspension system, its a hundred geometric, material and physical properties of the links, bushings, joints, tyres, chassis, springs and shocks.

Well, I vote give it a whirl, I just think a better start might come from a coil sprung 110.

At least I'm sure you agree that nitrous oxide is the way forward.

Al.

[FridgeFreezer]

Paul - the answer is staring you in the face, fit some shorter, stiffer springs & fancy shocks to your hybrid, add a squirt of NOS and you're probably as close as you're going to get for very little money. If you must have RWD then you know how easy that is with an LT230, find a shorter rear prop and bolt a Salisbury on the back for good measure and you're away.

Without spending proper money I doubt you'll better that setup for performance or weight.

[Astro_Al]

What he said. Plus anti roll bars with quick disconnects.

Al.

[FridgeFreezer]

What he said. Plus anti roll bars with quick disconnects.

If it's not going off-road you don't need disconnects do you?

[Astro_Al]

If it's not going off-road you don't need disconnects do you?

Good God thats logical.

I humbly apologise.

It is Tuesday, and April 1st, which makes it Orange-painted Extreme Uber-TTPOOAD so I'd like to say how much I appreciate your sincere tone and lack of hint of extraction of any kind.

Al.

[muddy]

My 130 with a scrapiron 2" lift (NOT fitted by me!) has springs that give a nice ride only when you have over a ton in the back, gas shocks and front and rear antiroll bars handles extremly well, granted its only on avon rangemasters but going round roundabouts you can make the front end wash out with next to no bodyroll. lower stiffer coils and antiroll bars would be my reccamendation.

Or how about putting it on air?

Will.

[Corrode Finger]

i did think 110 in the first instance...... just that a donor 109 has been flagged up as a starting point!! (no... not the bald one)

Also FF, what you said about the Volvo etc is good, but the other way around.... ie put that axle under a 109, central diff, then means that other 'non LR engine and box combo's in rwd format could be used?

Its the ladder chassis, the ally panels and visual look of the LR that appeals. Kind of a simpler version of the Aussie S1 above!

ie not a full blown drag car.

[Night Train]

How about droping the body and leaving the chassis where it is? You could then stick to 7.50 tyres as it will look better and fill the arches better then the 205's would.

If you had a tube front axle then it could have a a drop in it so it was slightly U shaped. The engine and transmission could be mounted lower in the chassis by changing the mounts. All the body mounting points could then be moved down and the floors repositioned to suit.

In the back the floor could almost be the same height as the wheel boxes and a small hump could be built in the wheel box to clear the tyres. The front floor and seat box could almost be flat, as in a road car. The pedal box could be pivoted up so that you push forwards rather then downwards allowing you to sit with almost straight legs.

[FridgeFreezer]

What about a Transit drivetrain - strong, plentiful, and the box (I believe) can be bolted to all sorts of fruity engines.

Still gonna be (relatively) heavy if you insist on using LR chassis though, at the lightest a 109 ragtop is 1600kg, and if it's heavy you're going to need a few cubes to move it about, and we're back to your existing 3.9 EFi hybrid as the ideal starting point.

Or you could work out what the hell you really want to build and then just build that, it'll probably be quicker, cheaper, and better in the long run

[Jen]

What's wrong with the hybrid Paul? You gone off that, has it broken or is this just 'a little something on the side'?