JimAttrill Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Yes, just bodge it together, it's not rocket science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 I think if you put new shells in, you should only attempt to make the one 250 mile trip and be real careful - I would also take another set in case you get stuck halfway! I remember when I did the same with my MGB it did just about last for a couple of hundred miles before the clanking got too loud, but my journals weren't as badly scored as yours. (and I didn't have to drive over mountains!) Is there a more economical way to get an engine - delivered on a pallet maybe? what about sourcing one from France - Italy has a few Land Rover clubs as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotian Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 Unfortunatly my girlfriend hasnt got her licence yet (another story altogether) so I will be doing the trip to Covasna on my own. I dont think it makes any difference in this case wich vehicle goes when becuase I will on my own both times. Also. when I buy the shells. I am going to need 1 thick one and the rest need to be the normal thickness since only one journal is worn. Should I just buy a set of the thickest type and only change that one and leave the rest as they are as it is only a temp fix? Engine delivered on a pallet I can get for 1.50 euro per KG so it is almost as expensive as driving the disco over here but then I am left with the problem of a disco with lots of parts I could use stuck in the UK with no engine... Edit: Should I buy the 030 shells from here click here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Horsevad Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 If you need any scans or extracts from the workshop manuals to assist you in the repair, just let me know - I have just scanned the whole 200 tdi manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Oh well, best just to get on with it then eh, you'll be laughing about it in a few months time. before you bring the discovery back, fill it with as many parts as you can and make the jouney worthwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotian Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 That would be great Kim. I've got everything in PDF apart from the 200tdi engine. Is it the disco engine manual you have? I know most of the engine is the same but it would be really handy if you could send me it all the same. I;ve got a friend here with a defender 200tdi too that I expect I will have to work on some time in the future. My email address is in my profile. cheers. MODS... maybe my nameshould read 0 horse power for now or maybe I should get the horse back and truly be 1 horse power!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cipx2 Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Better get in contact with one of the engine rebuilders in the UK and get 3 standard bearing shells (or the whole set of 4) and 1 bearing of each 010, 020, 030 so you can test which one will suit best. Maybe your measurement of the journal wasn't that accurate. As for which to do first, maybe it's better to get the Disco first so you can buy all the parts and maybe get the tools needed to repair the engine (sort of). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Horsevad Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 That would be great Kim. I've got everything in PDF apart from the 200tdi engine. Is it the disco engine manual you have? I know most of the engine is the same but it would be really handy if you could send me it all the same. I;ve got a friend here with a defender 200tdi too that I expect I will have to work on some time in the future. My email address is in my profile. cheers.MODS... maybe my nameshould read 0 horse power for now or maybe I should get the horse back and truly be 1 horse power!! The files should be coming your way now... But they are to big to send with normal email, so sending them with some internet-based large file transfer service. If they havent arrived tomorrow then send me a PM - I will find another solution then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotian Posted May 13, 2008 Author Share Posted May 13, 2008 Thanks very much for that. When I went to save it it asked if I want to overwrite what was already there I already had it. sorry but thanks for the effort I'm going to rename it from supliment book 6 to 200TDI so I dont forget I've got it again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotian Posted May 15, 2008 Author Share Posted May 15, 2008 Cipx2, could you talk me through how you would clean up the damaged journal please? I'm asking on here instead of PM just so other people who might want to do the same thing can see. I was planning on sanding it with long strips of wet 'n' dry paper of decreasing grain size till it was really smooth. I was going to use the strips like a guy uses a towel to dry his ? you know, hold each end and use it like dental floss I would turn the crank a little at a time and keep doing this till its nice all the way around.. but.. what about polishing it to the same degree as the others? I have a flapper wheel for a drill that polishes up steel like a mirror but there isnt enough room to get in there.. Any ideas on that? Anyone else with their ideas would be greatfully welcom too. Its not just a message to cipx2 Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Using any type of abrasive will just serve to increase any wear that is already present............. also is will make any ovality worse...........the journal can only be cleaned up by machining ………………. Just clean it with some brake cleaner and visually inspect it to ensure there are no bits of the old shell still stuck to it. If there are, then carefully scrap them off using something like a Stanley knife blade just drawn lightly across the surface. Poke out any **** from the oil way and make sure the journal, oil way, conrod, and cap are scrupulously clean (especially the mating faces of the conrod and cap). Then reassemble using standard shells. Torque up the cap to the correct values. I mentioned changing the pushrods on No2 earlier in the thread because if the valves touch the head then the rods will be bent, or will have at least flexed from true ………… HTH Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cipx2 Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Well, you won't be able to clean it up, that's for sure, but you got it right, that would be the method available to you. At the moment the journal will perform like a file. If you can picture the anatomy of a scratch, where you have a (quasi)plane surface followed by a mountain, then a valley, a mountain after that and then the plane surface again, all you can do is try to smooth the "mountains" a bit. The journal will still perform like a file but if you can make the file a little bit smoother then this might buy a little more miles for your vehicle on its way to the doctor. As for the grain size, I don't know. I would probably start with something like 360-420 on small area and see/feel if I need to go up or down. I wouldn't bother with to many grain sizes anyway, 1 or 2 at most. Remember to put something to plug the oil hole in that journal and remember to take it off afterwards. You won't be able to remove the scratches altogether (the "valleys") by hand and keep the journals round, as Bull Bar Cowboy already told you. And if you do that by machinery (remove the scratches) you'll need a 040 bearing shell which doesn't exist (you can have one made though but it doesn't worth the trouble and the money). I don't think this would be something interesting for others because I wouldn't advice anybody to do that (unless stranded in the middle of the desert somewhere). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotian Posted May 15, 2008 Author Share Posted May 15, 2008 I'm stranded in the middle of Craiova!!!! thats worse than any desert I've been in.. even the deserts that have bad guys with guns I'm waiting to see if I can get this 030 shell from my mate in the UK.. If anyone on here happens to have one kicking around I'd be greatfull if you could send it Thanks for the advice Bullbar cowboy and cipx2. I'll see what I can manage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cipx2 Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 No, you're not stranded in Craiova. Only your vehicle is As for the town itself, it has all you'd need to repair your vehicle. Remember this is one of the towns that has a car factory (in fact "had" a factory, the factory is now closed, was bought by Ford and will soon start producing cars). The only thing I see "stranded" is some funds stranded away from your pockets. And, of course, you need to have the parts shipped over there but, if money wouldn't be an object, you can have them there from UK in 48 hours (or 5-7 days the cheapest way). In Bucharest you can even have them the same day, but that costs big money. Joke or no joke, let's be fair. Otherwise people might start to think Craiova is the worst place God created (or created and forgot about it) or the last place on Earth you would choose to have a breakdown on your vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 How do you know that you need a +30 ? ................if the bearing is too tight then you will run the risk of localised heat seizure that will put you back to square one............... if the bearing is too loose then the big end may knock.............without a measurement its a bit of a lottery.................. It would be better if you could measure the journal to decide just how bad the wear is. My gut feeling is that the wear looks worse than it is....................so my suggestion would be to fit a complete set of std shells to all the big end bearings..........rather then a compromise of +30 to the faulty bigend (especially with out some sort of measurement guideline) By fitting new shells to all the bearings you will hopefully raise the oil pressure enough to keep you out of trouble for the 250 mile trip...... Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cipx2 Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Scotian said he measured it and it has 58mm (post #49) which is close to 57.963 - 57.982 mm (min and max diameter for the 3rd regrinding step for a proper reground journal). With a little bit of sanding it will fall in. Anyway, I suggested him to get a 020 and a 030 and test both, under the same presumption that the measurement might not be have been that accurate. Indeed, if he will put a 030 and it will be too tight, then the engine will seize in no time. I've done this kind of bush repair couple of times before (but the journal wasn't scored as bad), I also used sheets of thin metal under the shells, readjusted the shells etc and they lasted thousands of miles until the proper repair, no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotian Posted May 15, 2008 Author Share Posted May 15, 2008 Tha sounds like some hopefull advice. I messure the journal with a calliper and its exactly 58mm. but its not a digital caliper and the measurements are to about 18 million decimal points!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Ah…..sorry, I missed the post with the measurement………… Well, its only a rough measurement but it will have to do …………………….. the tightest difference looks to be about 1.5thou………. as the running clearance is close to 2 thou then the +30 shells will be OK…………… but I would change the others for a set of new std shells to ensure a good pressure oil feed to the crank………….. You will soon know if it feels tight once its bolted up………………even if it is tight then the abrasion characteristic of the damaged journal should take care of the lack of clearance. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotian Posted May 15, 2008 Author Share Posted May 15, 2008 Anychance you could explan how the shells effect the oil pressure? Sorry if its a stupid question but I really dont know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike4444244 Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Hi when you get the shells sent out get some plastigage too, then you can measure it in situ and pick the best size from there? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 The most common cause of low oil pressure in an engine is wear in both the main bearing and big end shells. The journal to shell clearance is critical and oil is fed to these under pressure from the pump............ this is to maintain a 'skin' of oil around the journal thus reducing wear buy lubrication and also to aid cooling of the bearings. Once the shells begin the wear the journals to shell clearance increases and the oil flows more freely thus reducing the oil pressure. Eventually this reached a point where the pump is unable to maintain adequate pressure at idle and the oil pressure light flickers on and off. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 .....if you are going to do all 4 , 3 std new and 1 -.030" , I'd also suggest pulling all 4 , and putting the -.030" together first. This will give you a better chance of 'feeling' the rotational quality of the bodge.....then put the rest back on....you know the other 3 will rotate IF they are assembled clean with fresh oil. The plastigauge is a good bet too ....its basically plasticene strand of a very accurate dia. which is put between the new shell and the journal for a dry test build. torque it up, take apart again , remove plastigauge carefully and the width of it when squashed tells you how much running clearance you have ......any more than .003" and you will be running on luck alone..... ....if it does run like this it may also be worth wiring the wastegate open on the turbo to reduce stress on this journey you need to make with it....tbh the cost and stress of all this would motivate me to find a truck to take me to the destination..... good luck with what ever you do.... Cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotian Posted May 16, 2008 Author Share Posted May 16, 2008 Does anyone know what other engines will bolt straight in (with nothing more than some imagination with mountings and plumbing it in) in place of mine? Somthing that might be easier to find out here like a tropper or land cruiser or somthing. I really dont want to move away from a 200tdi but it might be the cheapest option... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 The only bolt in would be Land Rover 2.5 petrol/2.5 NAD/ 2.5 TD, anything else would need a conversion ring...maybe you could put it in storage until you are sorted out and just get a cheap local car? Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotian Posted May 16, 2008 Author Share Posted May 16, 2008 I'm going to clean up the journal and fit new shells in the short time so I can at least bimble to the shops and local area. Wont venture into the mountains untill its sorted properly. Talking off line to cipx2 he is going to help be change the crank shaft as a medium measure then change the engine later as the last and final end to this horrible chapter. Thanks for all the help and advice guys. You've all helped increase my knowledge of internal combustion engines 10 fold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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