Is it feasible!!!!!!!!!

[bill van snorkle]

Guys anyone watched Planet Mechanics??

They have done the air driven engine and in another episode made a working stirling engine

Compressed air motorbike

K

I saw that episode and a few others on Pay TV a few weeks back and thought the performance and range of the bike was unimpressive to say the least. In fact most of their so called ''green'' solutions to various propulsion problems seemed to give less than desirable results re performance,range, or user friendly convenience.

Bill.

[simonr]

When / what channel is it on?

Si

[Bush65]

I remember seeing a patent application for fitting sails to gliders.

But on a serious note:

A few years ago there was an interesting system installed in villages in the Solomon Islands (South Pacific). They have wind suitable for power generation, but there was a risk that the villages would not take appropriate care of battery banks.

So the system used wind turbines to compress air, which was stored in large receivers. The compressed air drove a free piston motor that had a spring to return the piston and a novel valve design for controlling the compressed air. The natural frequency of the spring and piston mass was designed for 50Hz. The piston reciprocated within electrical windings to generate the electrical power.

During a search, I came across a similar principle, using a free piston motor using solar energy and a Stirling engine.

[rtbarton]

.....

So the system used wind turbines to compress air, which was stored in large receivers. The compressed air drove a free piston motor that had a spring to return the piston and a novel valve design for controlling the compressed air. The natural frequency of the spring and piston mass was designed for 50Hz. The piston reciprocated within electrical windings to generate the electrical power.

I use a lot of compressed air and this is one avenue I thought of going down. No need for a fancy regulator or loads of batteries.

[simonr]

The natural frequency of the spring and piston mass was designed for 50Hz. The piston reciprocated within electrical windings to generate the electrical power.

I had a similar idea for a micro-generator. Imagine two - two stroke engines back to back with a single piston in a double-ended bore. You load the piston with neodymium magnets (or similar). Wrap a coil around the outside of the bore (actually, a gap between two bores such that the magnetic flux is not interrupted by the metal sleeve).

Arrange the setup to resonate at 50hz - to give appropriate mains frequency.

To start it, you apply 50hz to the coil which will cause the piston to start oscillating and hopefully fire up the IC engine.

It might even work as a compression ignition (diesel) engine.

Aside from the heat losses, having only one moving part, it should be more efficient than a rotary engine!

The down side is it would probably shake itself to bits! Might make an 'interesting' convection heater come 'adult entertainment device' if nothing else!

I suppose you could run a pair of them longitudinally with the pistons running in anti phase to cancel the vibration?

Si

[rtbarton]

........To start it, you apply 50hz to the coil which will cause the piston to start oscillating and hopefully fire up the IC engine.

Si

The stroke generated by the winding would only be the distance between the turns on the coil so the engine probaly wouldn't fire as not enought mixture would be drawn in.

[Rotor]

Very large diesel engines are started using compressed air See here.

Also blank gunpowder cartridges were used to as starters in the same manner, blasting the expanding hot gases into the cylinders. They were called Coffman starters. In the original film 'Flight Of The Pheonix' The crashed plane was restarted using Coffman cartridges.

It's not such a daft idea but as has been said it takes more energy to make the compressed air then you would get out of the engine.

Yep, my dad had a tractor that was started with a black 12 bore cartridge,,hey how about an engine powerd by nitro glycerine??...........only joking!!

Rgds

Rotor

[MarkieB]

how about an engine powerd by nitro glycerine??...........only joking!!

Hydrogen though

I seem to think there was a compressed air 2cv limited range town car built a few years back, perhaps prototype/s of the Onecat;

you would have to say that the relative weight of a land rover makes it a different business;

The advantages of a self-compressing air system include the 'even [non-peak] power distribution' that assists the energy consumption of hybrid fuel/electric motors

It would seem that really the technology we'll see most developed is:

stage 1 hybrid fossil fuel / electric

stage 2 electric

stage 3 hydrogen electric

every stage feeds the subsequent stage with lower-cost components

cheers

[honitonhobbit]

TBH this suggestion is even worse than the clown who wanted to NOS a 300tdi

Ian

Why 'Clown'? NOS works well with Diesel engines - better so than on petrols

To be honest you haven't lived until you have bolted a small marine turbo to a engine, added an injector post turbo to the manifold added 50% Methanol to the fuel, and then hit the overfuel secondary injectors at the same time as the NOS. Maybe you should take a peak at the science behind some of these http://www.tractorpulling.co.uk/

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Why 'Clown'? NOS works well with Diesel engines - better so than on petrols

To be honest you haven't lived until you have bolted a small marine turbo to a engine, added an injector post turbo to the manifold added 50% Methanol to the fuel, and then hit the overfuel secondary injectors at the same time as the NOS. Maybe you should take a peak at the science behind some of these http://www.tractorpulling.co.uk/

I don't deny that NOS works well with the right engine ..........but anybody who wants to NOS a 300tdi for an extra 100+ ponies is a clown of the highest order

Ian

[honitonhobbit]

I don't deny that NOS works well with the right engine ..........but anybody who wants to NOS a 300tdi for an extra 100+ ponies is a clown of the highest order

Ian

Why

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

I guess you know why ............. sh!te stirring git........

Primarily the 200/300 is not a particularly strong engine in terms of its ability to withstand high EGT's , but that is only the start of the story, but the area that will fail first................what happens to an engine when you give it a 5 or 10 second burst of NOS to increase the cylinder oxygen content ?

Probably in the not too long term you would also be looking at holed pistons and maybe a broken crank, as these are also areas where the engine is lacking ............. maybe OK for what was intended, but for the NOS treatment ........no.............

Ian

[GBMUD]

I thought that NOS was primarily about charge cooling (hence adding as a liquid) and that the added oxygen was merely a bonus?

Chris

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Chris, you are absolutely right but that’s not the whole story.

When you heat Nitrous Oxide to over 300C it splits into its constituent parts ………. i.e. Nitrogen and oxygen……….

The extra oxygen content allows you to burn more fuel ………. Much more fuel ………

But yes, Nitrous Oxide cools rapidly as it vaporizes and this also has an additional effect on the power increase as the vaporizing occurs in the inlet manifold thus cooling the incoming air and increasing the air density significantly …….. more oxygen again.

But that doesn’t detract from my original statement that the 200/300TDI in standard form is probably not strong enough to withstand a large pork injection of Nitrous Oxide. I guess in many ways it would be self defeating as you would need to control the EGT’s above all else and trying to burn more fuel with a high oxy content produces a lot of heat.

I may have blown one or two engines with N2O ……get it right and it will throw you back in the seat B) ………….. get it just a little wrong and the engine will protest loudly within 2 or 3 seconds….

Ian

[honitonhobbit]

Ian you are talking petrol lumps though where timing and fueling are critical to prevent pre-ignition and thus avoid internal meltdown and pistons that look like windows into the sump. Pre-ignition is almost impossible with diesel (nothing is impossible). What holes pistons in oil burners is poor ignition. with propane or NOS you are improving ignition. You cannot over fuel a diesel - what doesn't burn come out of the exhaust but you can create too rich a mixture; I would also point out that 200/300Tdi's are not as sensitive to high EGT as some would believe and definately not as prone as the XUD1.9/2.1 both of which have been NOS'd to hell and back.

"So why is EGT important? EGT is an indication of how hot the combustion process is in the cylinders, and the amount of “afterburning” that is occurring in the exhaust manifold. EGT is also directly related to the air/fuel ratio. The richer the air/fuel ratio in a diesel, the higher the EGT will be. Two things can create a rich mixture under heavy loads or at full throttle: the first is too much fuel, and the second is not enough air. That seems simple enough, but it’s the second part, not enough air, that could get a stock, unmodified truck or motorhome in trouble. Anything that restricts intake airflow, or intake air density, limits the air mass that gets to the cylinders. Think of it as the amount of oxygen getting to the cylinders to support the combustion of fuel. This could include: a dirty or restrictive air cleaner, a partially blocked air intake, high outside air temperature, high altitude, restricted airflow to or through the radiator or intercooler, and high water temperature. The vehicle’s water temperature gauge will provide a warning of a cooling system problem, but the other problems aren’t likely to be noticed without a pyrometer unless the driver notices excessive exhaust smoke. A pyrometer also reacts more quickly than the water temperature gauge, so it allows the driver to spot a problem sooner and avoid engine damage. A restrictive exhaust system can also reduce the airflow through the engine, resulting in a rich condition. Any of the above conditions can result in excessive EGT if the vehicle is working hard, such as pulling a heavy load, running at sustained high speed, subjected to climbing a long grade, etc."

Like I said in another post elsewhere - NOS is perfect for diesels.

Your problem is the lack of cylinders in an IL4 and a need for crappy inneficient cheap fuel to run an engine on

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Dave,

I have no intention of falling to your bait with hook line and sinker ....................I have known you far too long and can see that you are in a playful mood for an internet argument

However, your theory and misguided reliance on LR diesels is seriously flawed...................

I will say no more on the matter

Ian

[honitonhobbit]

I win again B)

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

I win again B)

Nah .......... not this time............ you was rumbled

Ian

[honitonhobbit]

Nah, you chickened out - it's the petrol fumes that did it