V8 confusion...

[FridgeFreezer]

So the $64k question - if Lund & RPI both have questions on their quality, is there somewhere fairly trustworthy and not in the silly money regions of Mr Eales et al that can do this work? I guess Turners or ACR?

I'm not relishing bolting my lovely 4.6 together as the fist engine build I ever do

[Astro_Al]

I'm fairly sure I'll be getting a bare block from Turners and doing it myself.

I trust myself. I know I'll be conscientious. I'm prepared to provide myself with the parts I require. I'm not an idiot. I don't overcharge (myself...).

It seems hard to find someone else who fits into that category...

For info, Turners won't fit their top-hat liners to new 4.0 or 4.6 ltr blocks. They said it isn't necessary, which confused me to be honest, cos I thought the old liner slippage problem can occur to any engine at pretty much any time. It doesn't just seem to be the well- worn ones...???

I seem to get the 'it's not necessary' argument whenever someone doesn't want to do something.

Who's paying for crying out loud???

So maybe I'll just get a reman top-hatted block, or convince them to re-liner a new one.

Anyway, I'll be starting from a stiff cross-bolted block, sprucing up the block and oilways as per the previous suggestion, fitting a cam thrust plate, and static balancing everything myself, then probably have the rotating assy dynamic balanced - (WHERE, PLEASE), a little light head porting, duplex chain etc. I guess I'll run a build up thread on here, cos I'm bound to have lots of Q's.

I'm still thinking the 4.0 over the 4.6 (though the price difference is pretty small), to ensure reliability of the drivetrain. So before I buy the block, am I smoking too much crack?

What difference in torque and HP can I expect from the 4.0 and 4.6? Are there dyno plots anywhere of the standard engines?

Ta, Al.

[FridgeFreezer]

Al,

If you believe RPi the liner slippage problem is carp fuelling in the Range Rovers to meet emissions, if you believe Lund's that's not true.

I guess the truth lies somewhere in between - bad fuelling shows up a weakness with the liners. I'd also say stop poncing about and fit a 4.6 for all the extra it'll cost you as the block is the same, 94mm bore but longer stroke crank.

[Astro_Al]

Hmm you may be right John.

If I fit a 4.0 I may leave myself with piston envy...

I don't believe anyone about the liners to be honest. That's why I'll be fitting them even if I have proper trouble finding someone to do it.

Al.

[Ben Jordan]

Has anybody herd of or used these people DJE V8

Seem to have a very informative website with no bulls##t and they are not too far away from me.

[minivin]

Pretty much what I've read into it, I've had classic bikes with Top-hat liners and they even suffer from issues! reason being that they have cast cylinder barrels (just like a V8 crankcase), and over the years they settle, lose contact with the liner in places, which means that heat transfer is lost in places and causes hot spots, the localised heat then accentuates the issues and before long you got a seized piston in your supposedly ok liner.

Have removed a liner from a barrel where it only had evidence points of 1/2" width contact on two faces where it was making effective heat transfering contact. The thing dropped off the liner in the oven and 100 centigrade! now use fully machined solid billet alloy barrels with standard liners for my road going and circuit racing classic bike.

Too lean a mixture due to the GEMs, the rear cylinders being right by the bulkhead (and at the rear most of any air cooling it may get) and your looking at issues let alone the liners having Top-Hat or not.

Although I don't do fuel injection, but the 4.6 would have a lot less issues if the GEMs was thrown in the bin, MS fitted and the mixtures done to compensate for the temperatures on the rear cylinders

[Millsy]

I have added my own bit to the product review!

So you have - In a bit of a different tone to your earlier post here.....?

Sorry but the praise "Jumping on the band wagon" springs to mind, especially as you declined his offer to sort your problem, which seems to have been a simple misunderstanding.

[Ben Jordan]

So you have - In a bit of a different tone to your earlier post here.....?

Sorry but the praise "Jumping on the band wagon" springs to mind, especially as you declined his offer to sort your problem, which seems to have been a simple misunderstanding.

There is no jumping on the bandwagon; Steve has made sure that he has all the seat’s on that wagon. I was tolerant up to the second f##k up but the third was a step to far. If i order something that’s what i expect or to be refunded my money. Not be sent something else and told i thought it would be all right. He doesn't know me from Adam so how can he think it would be all right i was going to give him a chance to build my engine and if all was okay i would of sung his praises. I tell it how it is, just fact written down.

[Astro_Al]

Perhaps we can keep that issue to it's own thread. I don't want this one to deteriorate into a poo-fest, please chaps.

Cheers all, Al.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

A lot of the issues above relate to quality as to HOW its put together.

Quality components poorly put together = probs.

average parts put together very well = better

quality kit put together really well = relaible

Simple but true.

It takes far longer to do a 100% job than a quick "its together" jobe, and this is often the case.#

Clean, Inspect, and attention to detail is the key

It takes longer to do a "Proper Job" and thatl is worth a fortune,

..............................as such many skip it as "time is money"

.............and theres the prob IMHO with mnay of the above comments

Nige

[Ben Jordan]

Perhaps we can keep that issue to it's own thread. I don't want this one to deteriorate into a poo-fest, please chaps.

Cheers all, Al.

That is the point i forgot to put into my reply, thanks Al.

[Ben Jordan]

Is Tuning Rover V8 engines by David Hardcastle worth getting? Has anybody read Engine builders handbook by Tom Monroe?

[FridgeFreezer]

If you're going to buy it, find an old copy as the new ones are 1/2 the thickness.

I've read it but it only really tells you stuff about tuning practices rather than anything technical on how to put an engine together - may as well buy/download the official Rover rebuild dealer manual if you're building an engine.

[Niall_CSK]

If you're going to buy it, find an old copy as the new ones are 1/2 the thickness.

Does that mean you have a spare one you will be flogging

[FridgeFreezer]

I sent an enquiry to ACR about top hat liners & balancing, and after a bit of a delay I recieved this today:

John,

Sorry for the delay, you are right to consider the top hat liners, they

will eliminate all the problems with coolant leakage, and can be run at

96 mm bore size too. ( we have a nice piston to enable you to run on 96

mm bore, which give 4.8 )

Block assy with new core plugs, cam bearings, cleaned and prepared.

bores finished to your sizing requirements £ 800 ex vat exchange.

We contract balancing, about the only thing we sub out. Costs vary

wildly just depends on the amount of heavy metal which may need adding.

Expect this to cost between £ 250 and £350.

Hope that this is of interest

Regards

Roland Marlow ACR ltd

Notice:

"they will eliminate all the problems with coolant leakage"

A bold claim indeed.

Also I wasn't expecting the price to be quite so high, £800+vat you could run without and put the cash aside to buy a new lump (which go for similar or less money on eBlag) if it should go.

[MarkieB]

I seem to get the 'it's not necessary' argument whenever someone doesn't want to do something.

Who's paying for crying out loud???

Did you try saying that to rpi? You would think that they may change their tune were you to say 'well that's how I want it, could you do that or not?'

Interesting thread

[keithjh]

Hi All,

I have heard horrible tales about most of the engine re-builders at some point over the last umpteen years i have had V8s in one size or another.

Anyway 3 years ago my wifes 3.9RR Classic, developed the slipped liner syndrome the truck had only done 72000 miles with full service history. anyway as she bought it from a dealer it was sorted out under warranty, the engine fitted was a RPI 4.6 using the origonal 3.9 heads, the only thing RPI said was that the engine would need to be re-chipped (not under warranty i had to pay £250 rings a bell).

Anyway since that time the engine has done 60000 miles never missed a beat pulls like a train.

the reason RPI was used is that the dealer in question said they were far better than the factory re-con lumps by LR which was the other option only in 3.9 and i fancied 4.6 for the extra torque as we do a lot of very heavy towing around europe.

The above probably not any help but just thought i would add it anyway.

Which ever route you go i hope you eventually get it right.

Regards Keith