Badger90 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 hi all.. iv been thinking about this for a few months now.. i finish college next june.. and i really want to do a expedition from uk to egypt and then onto cape town.. be for i will need to go a harvest.. but most harvests iv been earning £5-6000 but im epecting i will be needing alot more then that? if anyone has done it what will be needed and what sort off budget will i need for it? also visa's? do i need to visas for each contry will be crossing or for just some places? and how long do they ususaly take.. i know you can spend how ever long in easth place as you wont? will a 200tdi 90 be up for the job or willl i bee needing 110? im sticking to 200tdi i know them off the back of my hand now and there a bloody good engine.. and will my truck have to notifyed by anyone? is there any laws on how long will be allowed to stya in each contry withough beeing registerd (if there is such thing in most places) iv been following the globle discovery in the lro (i think) thats been giving me rough ideas on most things.. cheers sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellow Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 check forums like Horizons Unlimited... Vast treasure cove of information... Although mostly focused on motorcycles, the 'rules' are valid for 4x4s as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Sam Why not contact Martin (Godlykepower on here), he is planning an African trip. You will find some details in his topic here - http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=26441 It might be worth putting a post in the Getting out and About Forum where members who view there may be able to advise. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Hi Sam, There are three things to sort out for any vehicle based trip. Preparation, preparation and preparation. Is a 200 TDi 90 up to the trip? YES if it has been properly MAINTAINED. Is it big enough is another question. I use a 110 300TDi and do reasonably long trips in it and get everything on the inside, as I am not a fan of roof racks on overland vehicles. Two up in a 90 and you might struggle for storage space inside the vehicle. You will need a carnet which is available from the RAC. Take a look HERE Another good source of information is the Foreign and Commonwealth Office HERE The cost of sorting your vehicle out will be three times your initial estimate/budget and take you twice as long as you anticipated. Do NOT be tempted to buy cheap gear as normally cheap gear will not last a long trip. Buy quality gear and it will last you. Contact the local Land Rover clubs. The South Africans can be found HERE Search for Land Rover or 4 x 4 clubs in the different countries you will be visiting. Although the SA club will probably give you advice for most of southern Africa. Have found this a great way of getting local up to date information. To temporary have a vehicle in another country you need to be road legal in the country of registration, which would limit your trip to a maximum of 12 months. To visit Eygpt though you need to temporay register your vehicle at the border. A carnet for Eygpt is done at a rate of 800% whereas most African countries is 200% See RAC website for fees etc. Hope that helps Good luck and enjoy your trip Regards Brendan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superpants Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 A very comprehensive book, which covers just about anything you could want is 'Vehicle Dependent Expeditions' published by the Royal Geographical Society: RGS Publications It's pricey, but you can get a good deal if bought with their normal expedition guide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Also worth getting a copy of Chris Scotts book Sahara Overland - some very good information on the kit you need, how to do it without shelling out vast sums of cash on pointless bolt on goodies, routes, visas, borders etc and also good advice on driving on sand/pistes etc if you've not done it before. About 20 quid on Amazon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeagent Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 There are no hard and fast rules about overlanding, some people take too much stuff (like me ) and some take very little (like Eightpot - hi Daz ) if you feel you need a dressing gown and a pair of slippers then take them, but don't forget everything you take will weigh down your vehicle, and make it use more fuel+put the mechanical bits under more stress. There are a few slightly elitest people on here that insist you need nothing more than spare pants and a Gerber, and others who take what they need to enjoy their trip... only thing i can suggest is ask lots of questions, then do a few practice trips to fathom out what works for you. Don't forget everone will have an opinion, but it don't mean its right for you. The couple who did the global discovery expedition in LRO have given out an email address for people to ask them question, it might be worth pinging them a mail and asking them a few questions about budget? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger90 Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 cheers guys.. i have had a look at godlys threads.. will email him soon. it sounds rather complicated when it come to the carnets. but there rather expensive.. i have looked into doing one for charity but its just finding the sponsers for gear and truck or just the gear and fuel.. well im still looking into that but i still prefer going my own or have 1 or 2 poeple with me and then the costs can be sheared but will have to get a a 110 or 130 truck then and bigger gear which will cost little more.. if you have 2 people in a 90 it will be little tight in space wouldnt it? cheers sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_P Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 if you have 2 people in a 90 it will be little tight in space wouldnt it? Six people sharing two 86-inch Land Rovers travelled from London to Singapore. No fancy roof racks or tents for the 18,000 mile journey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reads90 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 if you have 2 people in a 90 it will be little tight in space wouldnt it?cheers sam Me and the wife drove 26,000 miles around Australia in a 300 Tdi 90 soft top. Simular conditions in Aus as you will findd going from Uk to S/A. Dessert, corrigations, tropical rain, and really remote areas. we pretty much lived in the car for 7 months on our trip As for the off roading and track driving the 90 is great although can be like riding a Kangeroo on the corrigations due to the car being short The 200 Tdi is a great engine and properly one of the best and most reliable diesels that land rover have ever made. As for storage , that is a real problem in a 90. We have the MSS draws which worked great. But as a soft top we could not have a roof tent. So this mean't even more space taken up in the car. Then when you think you need a fridge and all food and ofther stuff the car starts to fill up quick. Of course you will need two spares so more space taken up And normally most of us take too much carp , we did The other problem is the 90 only ha a small fuel tank. We put in a stainless tank in the back (where the TD5 90 tank goes). This was done to the car in the Uk and came from these lot Rear tank. This will give you another storage of fuel and hecne save having to have so many jerry cans in the car. This fills up from the normal filler . There is a Y peice thaqt goes on the filler neck and hance you can fill up both tanks at the same time. Then when the front tank is empty you flick the switch for the pump and pump fuel from the back tank to the front we found space and camping gear a real problem. As they say any fool can be uncomfortable. So after we found we had no spece we bought an off road camper trailer as this has plenty of storage plus water storage, a kitchen and pleanty of sleeping and camper area. The trailer alos has sortage for 4 jerry cans so this mean't two could carry extra water and two carried extra fuel Off road tow Hitch The bed Inside storage Cart springs design to keep it simple and less to go wrong It took quite a bit of a battering The camper open up . Has two other sides to go on to complete the front The other thing you will need will be twin batteris for the fridge and lights and other electric stuff This was the list of spare parts we took with us for our 300 TDi 90 CV joint Viscous fan, Water pump, Master Brake servo Master brake cylinder Slave cylinder A couple of wheel bearing kits Stub axel couple of Prop UJ's Spare rear prop, spare props bolts Alternator Front axel brake hoses Front breaded brake hoses. Fan belts Air filter Brake pads (full set for all round) Master clutch cylinder 5 Ltrs of Engine oil, ATF, EP90,Radiator coolant WD 40 Brake fuid Think this is all of it , might have left out one or two things, but you get the idea And as said before there will be alot of " experts " on some sites that know it all but infact don't know alot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger90 Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 hmmm thats a good idea.. thats adds alot to storage as well.. still a ecuse to take loads of carp haha.. may i ask how much did it all cost? as in the hole jorney? i know austraila will differ in costs. but it will give me rough idea how much i will need to gather.. so to be so rude!! did the trailer pull the truck up much then? anymore then a roof rack would? would any performence gear help i.e large intercooler and tweaked pump.. would they help to the fuel consumption? il leave it at that.. or ill keep reeling questions like know tomorrow!! cheers sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Spares list!! What to take and what not to take??? Take too much and vehicle gets heavy and more prone to getting bogged/things broken etc. Too little and you can land up being in the smelly stuff. Good maintainence is essential to avoid predictable breakdowns. Take a reasonable amount and arrange back up from a reliable supplier in the UK. Contact local LR or 4 x 4 clubs as local contacts can be invaluable. Regards Brendan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger90 Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 just had a thought.. would a trailer actualy be pratical for going across sand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 just had a thought.. would a trailer actualy be pratical for going across sand? Simple answer is yes. The Aussies are great fans of overland trailers. There are some big sandy deserts out there. Just ensure that wheels and tyres are the same as the main vehicle. Also get a proper overland trailer. Trailers can prove problematical on steep mountain tracks. Regards Brendan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reads90 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 hmmm thats a good idea.. thats adds alot to storage as well.. still a ecuse to take loads of carp haha.. may i ask how much did it all cost? as in the hole jorney? i know austraila will differ in costs. but it will give me rough idea how much i will need to gather.. so to be so rude!!did the trailer pull the truck up much then? anymore then a roof rack would? would any performence gear help i.e large intercooler and tweaked pump.. would they help to the fuel consumption? il leave it at that.. or ill keep reeling questions like know tomorrow!! cheers sam The whole trip cost about A$12000 (so about £5000) and that was fuel, food and places we visted , you know the tourist stuff. The camper trailer cost us £3500. We already had the car but spent £2500 putting arb bumper, winch , shocks and springs, Twin Batteris, Fridge, UHF radio, Rear fule tank The car is standard with no mods apart from Allard turbo hoses. Which i left as stardar as less effort on the engine and therefore keep it reliable. Don't agree with outting all that stuff on an old engine. Can give it a bit of a shock and therefore make it unrelable The car gave a very good fuel ecomony . It ran with the trailer at 9-10 ltrs per 100K.(about 24-25 mpg) The trailer helped the car on the corrigation and stopped the bucking effect from the car. I would prefer a trailer to a roof rack anyday. The amout of people who over load a roof rack and then make the car a bit too swayee for my likeing Ali Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reads90 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 just had a thought.. would a trailer actualy be pratical for going across sand? Yeah no worries , just lower the tyre pressure in the trailer tyres as well as the car. and as what leeds said The one thing about over landing is when you come across a mud hole or tricky bit is pretty much most of the time you can drive around it and don't need to hack though it. After all it is not a site day where you are showing off in front of your mates. The number one thing is preservation of your truck. So take the easy route if poss, got nothing to prove to anyone out in the middle of no where Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 The one thing about over landing is when you come across a mud hole or tricky bit is pretty much most of the time you can drive around it and don't need to hack though it. After all it is not a site day where you are showing off in front of your mates. The number one thing is preservation of your truck. So take the easy route if poss, got nothing to prove to anyone out in the middle of no where Preserving your truck is of number one importance in the UK or abroad. Last weekend on a green laning trip in the Lake District there was a serious rock step which the Discos tow bar would have caused serious problems. An easy bypass existed which was taken! Preserve and protect your vehicle and it will tend to preserve and protect its occupants. There are no medals for busting your vehicle on a pay and play site. Bust your vehicle in the middle of nowhere and it might cost you your life. Regards Brendan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 How long is a piece of string ? Egypt...Carnet de Passage is 800% of the trucks value...Yers 800%... GPS. I've heard via the overland forums that Egypt has banned GPS units full stop. There is plenty information on the getting out board on this forum. Suggest you also look at http://www.landroveraddict.com/smf/index.php in the Overland Section. HTH mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger90 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 yeah there some good pointers.. cheers.. but if you take little spears with you i.e brake pads, brake cylinders.. how will you go about major jobs? i.e gearbox, clutch or transfer box? just find a local guarge that can? but what about finding a new box if ones needed? i watched that topgear epesode last night on iplayer.. very interesting.. but there isnt many slat marshes there is there? a faily heafty land rover kitted out with a trailer will wight a fair bit lol.. also wouldnt it be a little risky sitting up tents and that anywhere willy nilly because of some of the wold life? cheers sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cipx2 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 ..........Egypt...Carnet de Passage is 800% of the trucks value...Yers 800%... GPS. I've heard via the overland forums that Egypt has banned GPS units full stop. .......... Only RAC charges this preposterous amount. I'm not aware of any other country charging that much. Or maybe the info on their website is obsolete (actually it's dated 10/26/2006). It used to be 800% indeed but Egypt dropped their custom duty to up to 250% so I see no point in RAC requiring such a huge deposit. Here are some examples from other countries: South Africa - 200%, Germany - 60-70%, France - 250% .... As about gps being banned in Egypt, the interdiction dates from 2003 but a lot of people, locals, trip agencies or overlanders, use gps devices. Maybe not so in the open but this isn't actually a problem. Another good place to start reading is http://www.africa-overland.net/ You filter for LR based expeditions to start with and go from there. Read the websites and you'll find lots of diaries, budget/expences, visa info, gps tracks/waypoints etc etc etc. You won't see many LR 90's there (I don't remember seeing one), most of them are 110s of some sort or Discos. Not too many with a trailer either (I remember of Lone Wolf TransGlobal expedition - they had the trailer broken numerous times). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godlykepower Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Hey Sam, Hmmm, budgets. Mike is quite right; "how long is a peice of string" indeed?! Depends on what you want to do when your on the expedition/ how much time you have to do it, and how frugal you can be. It is possible to drive from Egypt to Cape Town in about 10 weeks, which I find ridiculously quick. You wont get chance to see much, especially anything off the beaten track (off the major routes) which is a waste of time in my opinion. I have allowed up to one year, but expect that between 6 and 9 months is more realistic. I dont want to be doing hundreds of miles every single day, and want to be able to relax for weeks in one spot if I choose. If you are the kind of person who simply HAS to have creature comforts available all the time, then you will end up spending lots of money on hotels etc. If you dont mind wearing the same clothes for several days at a time, not having a hot shower twice a day, and can live on basic food for long periods, you can save a shed load of cash. With regards to the Carnet, the only place to get one from the UK is the RAC. I have personally spoken to the chap who issues them, Paul Gowen, who has confirmed that they are indeed 800% of the vehicle value. See my thread I wrote on Carnets for a detailed description of what they are, and how to obtain one. Even though Egypt has lowered its import duty rates, this will have no knock-on effect in the UK for the forseeable future. As for GPS being outlawed in Egypt, I cant find any information to substantiate this claim 100% As far as i'm concerned, they are wary of electronic gadgets at worst, and will frown on their open use. Dont worry about it. Right, trailers! Oh, how I have debated this subject! I have been to and fro on whether to get one or not for quite some time now. Basically, yes they will go over sand, and pretty much anywhere your vehicle can, but at the end of the day, its just one more thing to go wrong. I have spoken to several people in the overland community on the subject, and the majority verdict is not to bother. Dont get me wrong, I WILL end up getting one, just not for London to Cape Town. I did several thousand miles last year across the Alps & around Europe, and would have loved a trailer in that scenario, and will get one for future trips of that nature. For a trans-Africa expedition, I will not take the risk. Trailers are one of those things you either swear by, or swear at! Ali (Reads90) has a superb trailer which has obviously stood him in good stead. For an unbiased opinion, talk to Paul Marsh at Footloose 4x4. He has crossed Africa several times. With regard to visas, you need them for some countries but not all. Obtaining them requires research, as some can be obtained at the border, others have to be applied for in other countries, and others can be applied for in the UK before you leave. Visas alone will set you back in the region of £500 for the whole continent. For visas you get at borders, the day you cross the border is your start date, and you are given a certain amount of time that you are allowed to stay for. For visas obtained in neighbouring countries, the day the visa is issued is usually (but not always) the date it starts from. For example, if you have a one month visa for a certain country, and you still have 2 weeks of stuff to do in the country you got the visa in, then by the time you get to the country named in the visa, you only have another 2 weeks to get in & out or across. However, visas can usually be extended once in a country (once again, not always though) usually at a capital or other major city. Some visas seem to be issued willy-nilly. You may find that you are given a one month visa, and others you bump into may have been given 5 weeks. A 90 WILL do the job - Lord knows I am doing it in a 90, which ought to be fun! - but a 110 would be better. I have had to be very, very frugal with my packing, and I can only take bear essentials, with very few luxuries. This is not an ideal set-up I know, but my 90 is a superb example, and I cant afford to trade it in for a 110 and get the 110 up to the level of preparation I have acheived so far on the 90. You need to get hold of some books to start doing some reading. Essential reading is: Vehicle Dependent Expedition Guide, Africa Overland, Africa by Road & Sahara Overland. Recommended reading is: Africa on a Shoestring by Lonely Planet. Get hold of a couple of Michelin maps covering Africa (741/745/746) they are only a few quid from Amazon. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask, as I am very far into the planning stages of my expedition at this point. Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reads90 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Trailers are one of those things you either swear by, or swear at! Ali (Reads90) has a superb trailer which has obviously stood him in good stead.For an unbiased opinion, talk to Paul Marsh at Footloose 4x4. He has crossed Africa several times. Martin Agree with you , there are alot of trailers ,One i saw at Gaydon this year for example , which are far too over the top. Too heavy , Too much fancy surpension . You need to keep it simple , hence less to go wrong. My trailer is basically a heavy duty off road box trailer with a tent on top which has parbolic cart springs, and that is it. No need for shocks so does not have them. But there are far too many which have better surpension that the car towing it. I have seen and heard many a problem with these sorts in the middle of nowhere. And rhen you really are in problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diff Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Hi Sam, As has been said earlier, everyones idea of what you 'need' for an expedition varies. Different strokes for different folks. When planning and costing an expedition there are a few points which you should keep in mind: 1. A bog standard Land Rover of any model right from a Series 1 to the latest Range Rover or D3 is perfectly capable of driving overland to Cape town (see Notes). 2. Preparation, extra/regular/continuous maintenance, keeping things standard, and sympathetic driving are the best way to achieve a mechanically trouble free trip. 3. Weight is the enemy of the expedition. Since we are Land Rover enthusiasts, the temptation is to start planning by thinking 'What can I fit/do to my Land Rover to help me on my journey?' However I would advise anybody who is thinking of an overland expedition to first decide 'Where do I want to go?, What do I want to see on the way?, How long do I want to spend getting there? Once you have decided these things, you can then start to work out the costs: How many miles, therefore how much for fuel? How much for ferry costs? How much for average day to day living - £10 a day, £20? How much for excursions on the way? Hot air balloon trip over the Serengeti? White water rafting on the Zambezi? etc etc How much for game parks? How much for personal insurance? How much for visas? How much for jabs and anti malarials? How much for an emergency/contingency fund? etc etc Eventually you will have a rough idea of what the trip will cost BEFORE you start spending money on your vehicle. Bare in mind that actual costs are often at least 50% more than you have allowed for. You will then be in a position to decide how much money you have to spend on your chosen vehicle. These should start with ensuring that the vehicle is in tip top mechanical condition - servicing, replacing worn parts, new tyres if required, spares, tools etc. Then you need to account for things like the Carnet de Passage. When deciding on how to equip your vehicle, keep referring back to my points 1 to 3 above. NOTES: Out of all the Land Rover models the Defender/90/110 is the most suitable because of: A. Its simplicity, B. Its basic rugged strength, C. Spares availability. There are many, many aftermarket accessories aimed at the offroading/overlanding market, and it is easy to believe that you NEED some, or all of them to enable you to undertake an expedition. Most accessories are NOT necessary, but they MAY make your journey more comfortable or help you out of a sticky situation a bit quicker. Some just add loads of weight for minimal benefit. Some make it look more attractive to thieves. Long range fuel tanks may enable you to travel on particular routes, but a jerry can or two may be more cost effective, but take up too much space, or your planned route may not require the extra range. This is where personal choice comes in. I have never taken a winch (there is almost always an alternative method of getting unstuck - though it may take more effort), I have never used a roll cage, steering guards, diff guards, or rock sliders. All these things add a LOT of weight, BUT if you do make a mistake or are unlucky, they may save you some unwanted inconvenience/expense. It should be remembered that anything that is NOT standard on your Land Rover may cause problems elsewhere. E.g. raised suspension can cause handling issues and premature failure of propshaft UJs., Non standard parts will be very difficult to replace if they wear out due to lack of local spares availability. Similarly if you have non standard tyres you may have trouble getting spares if you trash one. Waiting for spares to be shipped out to you can cost days or weeks, so anything you can do to avoid this situation is worthwhile. Obviously you should take spares that you may need at some point, and even some that you might not ever need, but would make life difficult if you didn't have them. There are plenty of spares lists on the net to give you an idea of what to take. It is useful to take the contact details of any spares supplier who is able to ship spares to you quickly. Always take a workshop manual with you. Even if you don't know how/have the confidence to do a particular job, the manual will prove useful to anyone that does the job. Be VERY wary of what parts you use in your preparations and what you take with you. Some pattern (non genuine) parts have a shocking reputation for quality - do plenty of research! If in doubt - use genuine, or OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer). I have done various expeditions/trips in various vehicles, old and modern. Some have been easier than others, ALL have been memorable! One of my old Land Rovers in the Sahara (4 adults in a 1959 109 Safari on the way to Capetown): http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopi...&hl=algeria The Internet is your friend. I did my first expedition in 1983 - no internet and virtually no information. Planning a big trip is now straightforward. Virtually every scrap of info you need is out there, just take your time and research, research, research. Have fun, Regards, Diff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger90 Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 thanks guys. so it has to be said that a redicoules amout of planning is to be dont? this is sort of putting me off for a while now i want to do it before a start my degree but some how i dont recon i will have that kind on money only a few months after i finish my diploma.. i may have to work my guts off work a year or two after i do the degree.. that means loads of time for planning then haha, no balls up.. should be made then but godly will you be posting some more about your jorney? i would like to follow it. cheers sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Why not do a trip through Europe via Croatia/Hungary to Greece or Turkey? Plenty to see, good off-roading, plenty of cold beers in the sun, and plenty of hot euro-chicks. You may find this has more to offer than a rank cup of mint tea with a prune faced sand arab When you're skint/diseased/injured/broken down you can just turn round and come home without having to worry about shipping/borders/visas/kidnappers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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