LittleBlue88 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Ive got a bit of a headache......a steering relay sized headache to be precise! The sodding thing is unbolted,beaten and sat on a jack but still doesnt want to budge Going by the condition of the bolts im tempted to belive that this relay has never been touched from new....so anyone have any good ideas??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 The Thing sits in a tube which goes through the chassis. On earlier vehicles this was a push fit, on later ones there is a bit of clearance. In either case water gets in and the whole thing seizes solid. You could try getting heat into the chassis, but it is unlikey to help as you really need to get the tube in the chassis hot. You could try hitting it upwards and downwards to work it loose. Most people end up rebuilding the relay in situ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errol209 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 (edited) The Thing sits in a tube which goes through the chassis. On earlier vehicles this was a push fit, on later ones there is a bit of clearance. In either case water gets in and the whole thing seizes solid. You could try getting heat into the chassis, but it is unlikey to help as you really need to get the tube in the chassis hot. You could try hitting it upwards and downwards to work it loose. Most people end up rebuilding the relay in situ. Lashings of penetrating oil / diesel and hope or, as rtbarton says, give up. I never got mine to come out (25 years in situ at the time). To get the tube hot, you could make a hole in the xmember and blow lamp it? Never tried, mind. Edited June 13, 2009 by errol209 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Someone on the Series 2 Club forum used a ground down hacksaw blade, picking at the space between relay and tube. ISTR he put 'teeth' on the end of the blade. I think he worked from underneath. What end result are you heading for, a rebuild? I believe people have done it in situ, but not me. If I find a relevant thread I'll post again. Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlue88 Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 Ive got a new relay to go in,i didnt like the idea of dismantling it simply due to the spring under tension inside but if i cant get the old one out i will prob just strip the guts out of the new one and fit that into the old body. Its only meant to be a temporary measure as i intend to change the chassis next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 If the old one is scrap you could try dismantling it (having due regard to the lethal spring) and cut the old housing away from the inside. You may be able to get it hot from the inside and then dowse it with cold water, the sudden shrinkage may free it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlue88 Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 Bit difficult as i have no Heat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Either rebuild it in situ or if it is still in working order on a registered regularly driven vehicle, keep driving it with the top bolts loosened off and the bottom spigot plate removed while regularly soaking the area in penetrant. I've seen crossmembers damaged beyond repair when people have tried to force the issue with sledge hammers, hydraulic g clamps etc. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 ........., keep driving it with the top bolts loosened off and the bottom spigot plate removed .............Bill. I don't think so. If it suddenly loosens up the streeing will be all over the place. A very small amount of play at the steering relay makes a big difference at the wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlue88 Posted June 14, 2009 Author Share Posted June 14, 2009 Im going to have another go in a while to try and get it out but as i know the front chassis area is quite weak and thin i dont intend to use too much force,the truck drove okish before hand but steering felt a bit tight and it has recently leaked all its oil out. We shall see what happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdong2 Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 when i did mine i spent the week before leathering it with WD40 and 3 in 1 oil then spent the weekend trying to remove it and the following week jacking the landy up with all the weight of the landy on the relay and even then it still wouldn't come out in the end i resorted to jacking the landy up as high as i could get it and lowering it fast so the relay landed onto a piece of steel a few times of doing this and eventually it cam out graham ___________________________ 1962 2a swb 200 tdi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Never managed to get mine out, no matter what, i rebuilt it in place. It is now history as i have gone to PS and chopped the whole x member off. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I don't think so. If it suddenly loosens up the streeing will be all over the place. A very small amount of play at the steering relay makes a big difference at the wheels. If it is that seized in do you think it will suddenly without warning get all sloppy and dangerous ? No if anything happens at all it may gradually loosen up, and as this is the whole point of the excercise I'd expect a watchful eye be kept on it and spanners to be carried at the ready to clamp things back up. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony109 Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Your almost there.. A Jack, a tube to press the relay out... So what happens when you try and jack the relay out??? You simply jack the vehicle up, Right??? What you now need is a way of keeping the vehicle held down as you jack up.. The weight of the vehicle is not enough to Press the relay out. The safest way of doing things is.. Soak oil around the relay the night before then press the relay out with your jack, a suitable tube and a chain or strop around the chassis to prevent the vehcle from lifting as you jack up. My relay simply drops into the chassis and is then correctly locked and located with a collar ensuring there is no relay movement in the chassis.. If needing to be removed, Ill undo the collar and bolts and the relay will simply lift out by hand.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 If it is that seized in do you think it will suddenly without warning get all sloppy and dangerous ? No if anything happens at all it may gradually loosen up, and as this is the whole point of the excercise I'd expect a watchful eye be kept on it and spanners to be carried at the ready to clamp things back up.Bill Possibly, I wouldn't risk my life on the point. How gradual is gradual? Very slight movement at the entrance to a roundabout, completely out of control half way round? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 ......My relay simply drops into the chassis and is then correctly locked and located with a collar ensuring there is no relay movement in the chassis.. If needing to be removed, Ill undo the collar and bolts and the relay will simply lift out by hand.. That'll be a later chassis with a slightly larger tube. I blathered mine with Waxoyl before fitting it (new galvanised chassis) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnseries Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Ive got a bit of a headache......a steering relay sized headache to be precise!The sodding thing is unbolted,beaten and sat on a jack but still doesnt want to bu Going by the condition of the bolts im tempted to belive that this relay has never been touched from new....so anyone have any good ideas??? Just to depress you a little more when I changed my last one on a 88" series 3 I am lucky enough to have a pit and full workshop but even so I chained the vehicle down to the floor very tight then with a block and tackle on the idler pulling upwards and a 10 ton porter power pushing up from underneath and a complete drowning in penetrating oil left it for a few days under real tension and eventually with a few big hits from a club hammer it came out. What a job without those sort of facilities I would be inclined to rebuild your one in the cross member especially if you are changing the chassis. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony109 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 That'll be a later chassis with a slightly larger tube. I blathered mine with Waxoyl before fitting it (new galvanised chassis) As the relay sits in a larger hole, how have you located your relay??? Have you used shims or something else? The point Im making about removeing a Relay with a Jack or press arrangement is that the weight of the vehicle is not enough to allow jacking from underneath.. You need to prevent the vehicle from raising away from the jack, so Use a HEAVY DUTY sling, strop,etc around the relay crossmember and the relay can be carefully pressed out the chassis.. The 'Driving down the road with all the bolts undone' method isn't in the early workshop manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I think you're missing what Bill said - he didn't say remove all the bolts and drive it about like a loon, he said to loosen them slightly so that the thing may be allowed to move, ever so slightly, in the chassis - EG break the bond of rust but basically stay put. Driving around is going to impart far more useful force to loosen the relay than jacking or whacking and without the risk of b*ggering up your X-member. Frankly given Series steering I'd be very surprised if you even notice a slightly loose relay through the steering never mind a deterioration of the pin-sharp handling when flinging it round a roundabout at 80mph FWIW my vote is cut it out and fit a PAS box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony109 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I think you're missing what Bill said - he didn't say remove all the bolts and drive it about like a loon, he said to loosen them slightly so that the thing may be allowed to move, ever so slightly, in the chassis - EG break the bond of rust but basically stay put. Driving around is going to impart far more useful force to loosen the relay than jacking or whacking and without the risk of b*ggering up your X-member. Frankly given Series steering I'd be very surprised if you even notice a slightly loose relay through the steering never mind a deterioration of the pin-sharp handling when flinging it round a roundabout at 80mph FWIW my vote is cut it out and fit a PAS box I think my point was missed.. The relay will press out of the chassis, even if stuck provided the jack or press is held in place against the vehicle.. As most people dont want to hack out their chassis or convert to a new steering arrangement, fixing what you have is the name of the game.. e.g Secure the jack underneath the vehicle with a bridal, so not to Bug.er up the crossmember, and this way the vehicle cannot raise or move away from the jack. All the force is placed on the relay. I never suggested whacking it with a hammer, this causes damage. The amount of force you can apply will be far greater than that caused by driving it around or Steering at standstill which will also strain steering joints before taking much effect on the relay.. FWIW:rolleyes., My vote is to repair what you have and do the job correctly. Series steering can be very good when correct and you dont have to hack out the chassis or convert to PAS each time you need to replace the steering Relay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 As the relay sits in a larger hole, how have you located your relay??? Have you used shims or something else?....... It's located by the bolts on the top. I'm not 100% happy with this arrangement but that's how it is. The bottom plate is a mudshield and doesn't locate the relay, I had wondered about fitting it upside down so the lip on the inner diameter fits tightly on the relay, but it doesn't fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I think you're missing what Bill said - he didn't say remove all the bolts and drive it about like a loon, he said to loosen them slightly so that the thing may be allowed to move, ever so slightly, in the chassis - EG break the bond of rust but basically stay put. Driving around is going to impart far more useful force to loosen the relay than jacking or whacking and without the risk of b*ggering up your X-member. ............ No I'm not - I can read. Please copy and paste where I suggested driving like a loon. Frankly given Series steering I'd be very surprised if you even notice a slightly loose relay through the steering never mind a deterioration of the pin-sharp handling when flinging it round a roundabout at 80mph ..... Really? Perhaps you've never driven a Series with good steering. When all is well there's nothing wrong with it. In my experience the slightest play in the relay has a noticeable effect on the road. Flinging it round a roundabout at 80 mph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony109 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 It's located by the bolts on the top. I'm not 100% happy with this arrangement but that's how it is.The bottom plate is a mudshield and doesn't locate the relay, I had wondered about fitting it upside down so the lip on the inner diameter fits tightly on the relay, but it doesn't fit. The bottom plate is only a Mud shield, but I have replaced this Mud shield with a much heavier and correctly machined collar that properly holds and locates the relay at the bottom.. Therefore it is a better solution of holding the relay in place, and no need to shime the base of the relay as is intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 The bottom plate is only a Mud shield, but I have replaced this Mud shield with a much heavier and correctly machined collar that properly holds and locates the relay at the bottom.. Therefore it is a better solution of holding the relay in place, and no need to shime the base of the relay as is intended. That's a good idea. I've never seen shims mentioned, I did wonder about fitting one on my rebuild. The 1984? SIII MOD I scrapped wasn't shimmed and the relay was a loose fit in the chassis. Have you got a part number for the shim(s)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony109 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 That's a good idea. I've never seen shims mentioned, I did wonder about fitting one on my rebuild. The 1984? SIII MOD I scrapped wasn't shimmed and the relay was a loose fit in the chassis.Have you got a part number for the shim(s)? You can buy shim steel in a roll from a Fasteners shop or similar.. however I think this method is crude and difficult to sort when installing, hence why I machined a collar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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