It's definitely a Land Rover...

[geoffbeaumont]

Well, the P38 may be a good deal smoother on the road than any Land Rover I've owned before, but it's still got that solihull something...it developed a vibration just over a week ago that I couldn't pin down to start with, but as it got worse felt more and more like a propshaft UJ on the way out. Took the wife's car up to Oswestry on Wednesday and crawled underneath for a look that evening. Sure enough, the rear UJ on the front prop wasn't feeling too good, so took the prop off and found one bearing had completely collapsed (very glad I didn't try to drive it up to Shropshire...). No problem, I keep spare UJs, and it's just one of those things on a Land Rover. Except that it looks like this UJ has failed completely in the past (the area around the back of the prop has taken a bit of a battering), and whoever fixed it needs to be shot before they kill someone Fortunately I was able to replace the failed UJ, but the front one can't be removed as the yokes are dented and the outside of the cup holes are no longer round - fair enough if they were just getting it back on the road as quickly and cheaply as possible, but when that wears out it'll have to be a new prop - the shaft is also rather battered which can't be doing the seal any good, though it's holding at the moment. I'm guessing they also made a hash of fitting the new UJ since it's gone again (it was a decent GKN, not a chocolate one). The piece de resistance, though, was horribly bodged bolts at the transfer box end. One had been replaced with a stud that was too short and only reached half way through the nut, another had an incorrect nut on and had been stripped I figured the stud was because they couldn't shift the flange nut to change the bolts properly, and was steeling myself for spending all weekend sorting it, but had no trouble at all undoing it, so just plain lazy, I guess.

Got that all sorted saturday morning, and yesterday the locks started playing up (okay, technically got worse - the drivers door lock was sticking a bit before, but not to the point it wouldn't unlock if you tried a couple of times. Sometimes now the car won't unlock with the fob at all, sometime only the drivers door stays locked (and sometimes it works fine). Caused me a bit of a panic on Sunday as I'd deadlocked the car and it didn't want to open at all... I'm guessing this is just going to be a sticky mechanism?

[disco_al]

the key fobs are notorious for failing on the P38. there was something in one of the LR comics a few months ago about them. IIRC they are readily available from the 'net

[q-rover]

NO.

It'll be the master lock, which is the driverside. Replace and weep at the cost £100+.

It's usually either the tiny motor or the microswitch failing. Make sure you have new

doortrim clips for refitting as no doubt a few will get bent/ broken beyond re-use.

And if it fails, and you get locked out, and the EKA doesn't work, don't replace the batteries

in the fob. If the switch is failing it means the BECM doesn't know the position of the lock.

So if you replace the batteries in the fob, how will it be able to re-sync itself with the lock,

which is what you have to do before the fob will work again.

[David Sparkes]

Just picking up on the aside by q-rover; have you checked you have a valid EKA, that actually works?

Better to establish the state of play sooner rather than later, although your comments do give the impression you have travelled very close to the edge :-)

Secondly, 38A fobs are only freely available on the 'net IF you want one that doesn't work as a remote. If you want to, change the blade to use it as the most expensive key handle you are ever likely to buy, but never dream of it working as a remote.

I am astonished that someone on this Forum, not familiar with with the 38A, should use a 'comic' as an authoritative source.

Mind you, it supports the point I've made before. The 38A is generally unappreciated on this forum (so it doesn't matter if people spray the owners with sh one Tee).

I also think the problems found when checking the propshaft are not indicative of a 'solihull something', but is another example of contempt for the model (and by extension, it's owners).

It'll be no surprise that I do agree with "whoever fixed it needs to be shot before they kill someone".

(Got to end on a high note :-) )

Cheers.

[q-rover]

The 38A is generally unappreciated on this forum (so it doesn't matter if people spray the owners with sh one Tee).

To be honest the only forum that does give good and knowledgeable advice for the P38,

is RangeRovers.net.There are some real enthusiasts and entrepeneurs on there and the

forum is probably beyond value.

[geoffbeaumont]

Ouch! I was hoping the answer would be that it needed a good clean

Just picking up on the aside by q-rover; have you checked you have a valid EKA, that actually works?

Better to establish the state of play sooner rather than later, although your comments do give the impression you have travelled very close to the edge :-)

I have the EKA, but haven't tested it. I was concerned that if the lock was dodgy I might end disabling the truck when it's currently working.

I am astonished that someone on this Forum, not familiar with with the 38A, should use a 'comic' as an authoritative source.

Mind you, it supports the point I've made before. The 38A is generally unappreciated on this forum (so it doesn't matter if people spray the owners with sh one Tee).

Unappreciated, or just not that many active members have them? They've only recently come down to a price where most people would consider using them 'in anger'.

I also think the problems found when checking the propshaft are not indicative of a 'solihull something', but is another example of contempt for the model (and by extension, it's owners).

I was referring more to the steady stream of urgent repair jobs... Frankly, I don't think you have to drive a P38 to get this sort of workmanship from some garages - and I include Land Rover specialists in that. I started doing my own maintenance mainly because I couldn't find a reliable Land Rover garage I could afford to use, and that was with a classic.

[geoffbeaumont]

I don't suppose anyone knows the part number for the drivers door lock (and the trim clips, I guess)? I'm getting away with opening it with the key (albeit accompanied by a few petulant chirps from the alarm), but I don't think I want to put off dealing with this too long!

[q-rover]

Plastic studs MWC9134

Door latch FQJ103220

But don't quote me on this, just check yourself to make sure.

[David Sparkes]

I match the part number for the latch, it's on my invoice from July 2005.

I've never bought the studs, possibly because I found they pulled out from the door card before they broke.

As for curing by cleaning, I do think it's possible, but I also wouldn't like to anticipate what life extension you get.

I suspect that partly it depends on what exactly is 'wrong'.

Like you, I also wouldn't appreciate a total failure. I've read the story so many times. It generally goes 'it was playing up, I'm not sure why, but I put off dealing with it. It's totally failed now, the car is stranded somewhere, it's really inconvenient, how can I fix it quickly and cheaply'.

The door latch is a complex part, I certainly baulk at taking one apart (and expecting to rebuild into a working condition).

So, 10 years old, over 100k miles (in my case), then I think I'm worth a new door lock.

I don't pay labour charges, so I reckon I can allow myself a sizeable parts fund.

Try cleaning and see. I'll leave you to judge whether it's better to spray with lots of WD40 in situ, and hope you clean off all the gunge, or take out the latch, properly clean, examine, and regrease, then replace the latch. Just a hint, I did find replacing the latch to be something of a trial. It's something of a Chinese puzzle (other civilisations may also be appropriate).

You have small Torx bits for the screws visible near the latch on the edge of the door?

"... They've only recently come down to a price where most people would consider using them 'in anger'."

A bit of a smile there. Look at the number of new posts coming through, the majority seem to be for Defenders. There has been a recent thread about someone wanting a new radiator plus oil cooler for a Defender. £130+ IIRC. For your 38A? £140 delivered from Island 4x4. For the same facility that doesn't seem a big price difference.

I suspect your door latch will be more expensive than the one for a Defender, but the facilities offered are different.

BTW, I don't mind people choosing some other Land Rover, it's entirely their choice. But in return, because 'not many members have them' is no reason to denigrate the 38A, or their owners, by not bothering about the accuracy of any stories propogated. If people don't care, that's fine, they should go and get involved in something they do care about.

Hope this helps.

[q-rover]

To be honest I don´t find doing the latches too difficult.

I have done 3 now, driver x2(2nd hand part , for free) and passenger.

As my vehicle is LHD and I am RHded I found the passenger side more awkward.

The plastic studs are only a couple of £ for a bag of 10.

I think the P38 is a wonderfull vehicle and with access to diagnostics is quite

within the realms of the DIY enthusiast. What I am disillusioned over though

is the lack of attention it has received in the aftermarket goodies world.

Unless you want chrome 20" wheels.

We´re taking ours to the Pyrenees in exactly 2 weeks time. Very much looking

forward to it, especially in the comfort of a RR.

[geoffbeaumont]

New lock ordered (and pegs - they're cheap and I've broken plenty in the past, so a few in the tool box will be handy). I'll have a look at the old one once it's out and see if it's repairable as a spare, but I'm not cutting corners on something that could leave us stranded.

Have torx bits - probably find the one I need it missing when I get to it

Rangerovers.net have a pretty good article on changing the lock, so I've a fair idea what I'm in for.

[geoffbeaumont]

"... They've only recently come down to a price where most people would consider using them 'in anger'."

A bit of a smile there. Look at the number of new posts coming through, the majority seem to be for Defenders. There has been a recent thread about someone wanting a new radiator plus oil cooler for a Defender. £130+ IIRC. For your 38A? £140 delivered from Island 4x4. For the same facility that doesn't seem a big price difference.

That's a fair point - though I'm not sure how many people setting out to build an "ultimate off-roader" would start with a P38. I'd want a lot less electrics and luxury on something I intended driving through water up to the roof. The P38 will always appeal more to people who need and all rounder, which is a rather different market.

I wasn't referring to parts cost - I doubt there as many pattern parts available for the P38 as for the older Land Rovers, but then I'm increasingly steering clear of pattern parts anyway.

[geoffbeaumont]

Well, I seem to be having a good run with LR parts suppliers recently

After the fun and games trying to get swivels for the Discovery (messed around by three different suppliers) I'm still waiting for the lock after two weeks without a word (different supplier again). Chased them today so we'll see if they get back to me. Also ordered a new wiper arm from the ebay store of a well known supplier - went to fit it this evening and it was a mirror image of the old one... Checked the part number and sure enough it's a left hand wiper for a left hand drive, not right hand for a right hand drive. That's from one of the swivel three, who supplied a series swivel for a Discovery.

Is it just me?

[geoffbeaumont]

I eventually got the new lock and window regulator after nearly a month (chased by email and was ignored - then chased by phone and it had been 'waiting for the regulator to come in' - which had by amazing coincidence arrived that very day ). The regulator, incidentally, was because the window sticks part way up, triggering the anti-crush sensor. It can then be put up by holding the button although there's a noticeable slowing and sound of straining motor at the same point.

So, this afternoon I set out to strip the door down. The lining foam had been hacked about, but the first real warning sign was when I got to the lock - being an early P38, mine should have no connector on the black wire (you have to cut it) - instead it had a spade connector. Non-standard, so the lock has been changed before. Okay, given their reputation it wouldn't be that surprising if it had failed twice on a fourteen year old car...

The regulator looked fine too, but I had a new one, so while I had it apart anyway... Checked everything else on the window was okay. The window went up and down as smoothly as was to be expected lifting it by hand, given it's hard to keep it horizontal.

All went back together with minimum fuss - a good afternoon... Until I tested it. Yup, both problems are still there

The window has me a bit stumped at the moment - when it catches it dips at the front, but as I said I couldn't find any tight spots lifting it by hand. At the moment the only thing I can think of is to change the window seal and see if that makes any difference (I've already tried the old WD-40 on the seal trick - helped for about half an hour...).

I'm going to try disconnecting the handle/lock barrel from the lock mechanism to see if that makes any difference, as it's well worn. Other than that I'm not sure if there's anything else I can try on the lock front? It's clearly not the lock itself.

On the plus side I took lots of photo's, so I've plenty of material for a lock changing article for the tech archive (it's a lot easier than I was expecting, but there are some things missing from the rangerovers.net article).

[Fatboy]

Geoff,

My window had similar symptoms to yours and I also found that pentrating oil on the seals only worked for a short period. However, proper silicon spray worked a treat and the window works happily now without any slowing/tilting.

Mine was tilting forward so I concentrated the spray on the front seal, getting as far into the door as I could.

[ThreeSheds]

Geoff,

My window had similar symptoms to yours and I also found that pentrating oil on the seals only worked for a short period. However, proper silicon spray worked a treat and the window works happily now without any slowing/tilting.

Mine was tilting forward so I concentrated the spray on the front seal, getting as far into the door as I could.

I have the same problem on my RRC - unless its raining when it is fine.

I am loathe to put lubricant on the seals since they are obviously intended to run dry, and cleaning the over-spray off the glass would be a pain.

I had the window frame out the other day (the window support had rusted through) and I checked it closely but could see no reason for the tight-spot, but when assembled it comes back - even if I leave all the bolts loose. It has me baffled.. Since I still suspect the frame/seal geometry, the next thing I will try is fitting the window frame from my old Disco, which didn't used to stick...

[Fatboy]

ThreeSheds,

I used the extension hose on the aerosol can to get into the track and minimise the overspray on the window. Excess wipes off easily enough and it sorted it. I also had the problem on my Classic but that seemed to be because the seal had come away at the top of the frame and split slightly - I figured it may have lost stretch and therefore got narrower - pinching on the window.

[geoffbeaumont]

Mine was tilting forward so I concentrated the spray on the front seal, getting as far into the door as I could.

That's exactly what mine is doing. I'll see if I can get some silicon spray and try that - if it works I'd be tempted to try changing the seal to fix it permanently, though that'll probably guarantee it turns out to be the door geometry...

[SteveRK]

Normally window lifts are adjustable by rotating the motor/lifting arm assembly to ensure horizontal lift.

If there is no adjustment then either one of the lifting arms is bent, or a nylon guide is worn, or the window isn't sitting correctly in the bottom channel.

[geoffbeaumont]

Normally window lifts are adjustable by rotating the motor/lifting arm assembly to ensure horizontal lift.

If there is no adjustment then either one of the lifting arms is bent, or a nylon guide is worn, or the window isn't sitting correctly in the bottom channel.

There's no adjustment in the mechanism, the nylon guides look okay, the channels are fine and I've just replaced the entire regulator.

[geoffbeaumont]

Well, a good dose of silicon lubricant seems to have sorted the window (did it a few days ago and it's still behaving itself) - thanks Donald. I did notice when I was cleaning all the grubby fingerprints off it that there's some scoring in the front corner, on the outside, so it has scraped against something at some point - as far as I can see it isn't now.

The locks still seem to be as temperamental as ever, though I'm not as scared by them as I was, now I know it isn't the master lock on the way out. I'm wondering whether the actual fob could be the culprit, but the only way I can think of to find out is to hand Land Rover a large wad of cash for a new one. Might just have to bite the bullet and do it as I don't like only having one key anyway

Next job on the list is the brakes - nasty scraping noise announced the end of NSR pads and a scored disk (my fault, should have whipped the wheels off and checked them when I bought it). Calliper seems okay, so far as I can tell without removing it, though the pads on the other side have plenty of meat left. Suspect the pads may just have been changed asymmetrically as it has one brand new and one almost worn out disk on the front (to go with the unmatched tyres)

[geoffbeaumont]

For the sake of closure on this thread:

The window has worked fine since spraying with silicon lubricant (thanks FatBoy).

Disks and pads have been replaced all round along with both rear calipers. Ouch! but at least I know it's all in perfect condition now.

After all that messing around with the lock, I ordered a new key recently (£147 inc vat for a key3 ) - which works perfectly, so it was the key fob not anything on the car itself. At that price I can live with a temperamental key for the backup, though I'll get a friend to take a look at it and see if it's just dry solder joints or something. I don't know if it's any help as a diagnostic, but when watching the lock buttons on the doors carefully while pressing the unlock button on the old fob it looked to me as if the car might have been trying to lock rather than unlock, which did make me wonder if the fob was sending the wrong signal.