Exporting an old Landrover to France

[LandyManLuke]

A friend is moving out to France to run a rural business and is rather keen on the idea of having a LHD LR for bumbling around the fields in - something like a series 3, ninety or 90 would be what he's looking for.

What are the sensible options? he's not looking for a pop-rivet-correct example, but the vehicle will need to meet whatever import requirements exist. I guess the main questions boil down to;

- Is it possible to convert an existing bulkhead to LHD, swapping the required parts?

- If so, which parts can stay, which must be replaced?

- If a new bulkhead is an absolute must, what are the options?

- Is my assumption that buying a ready-built LHD vehicle attracts a premium, true?

- What documentation is involved in importing a vehicle in to France?

Any info much appreciated.

Luke

[rtbarton]

Hi Luke,

A Series III bulkhead can be set up for LHD or RHD, all the holes are there covered with blanking plates.

I guess he'll need a LHD steering box, the relay will fit either side, as long as there's a hole on the LH side of the chassis!

A LHD handbrake lever assembly will be required too, there should be a hole in the seatbox.

The throttle will need sorting, but I guess a cable conversion wouldn't be too difficult.

I'm not sure if the instrument binnacle can be swapped over or whether a different dash is needed. A Series II/IIa would be better from that perspective.

[steve_d]

I could understand wanting to take your old friend 90/S3 with you but buying one to convert then having the hassle of registration both here and in France makes no sense.

Far easier to just buy one when out there.

Steve

[Exmoor Beast]

Nip over to LandRoverAddict.com and speak to Arjan.

He is based in France and is over here all the time doing grand tours and collecting random bits and whole Land Rovers and carting them to France. He drops into my place several times a year to have a chat or borrow bits, he is due back next month sometime...

I know he has several Land Rovers in his collection that may suit and I'm certain he could source something suitable if he hasn't.

Will

[Off Road Toad]

I have been looking at doing the same thing recently with my wifes old series. However, it's not going to be possible due to French law and red tape.

In France you are NOT aloud to modify a vehicle away from standard (ie as it left the factory) this includes offroad mods.

i know you see lots of modified vehicles in France but things are getting very difficult over there.

A new law looks like it is being passed that gives police the power to seize a vehicle and hold it. you then have to prove that it is standard and if its not you may be forced to return it to standard.

I was told that to covert a rhd landrover to lhd would take years of red tape and letters direct from landrover saying that the vehicle meets type approval etc.

The easiest way is to register the vehicle in england and bring it back once a year for mot.

Talk to Rod Newman in France. he is English, has lived there and run a landrover/4x4 business for 30 years and has a good knowledge of the red tape involving old/modified landrovers.

www.newman4x4.com

Steve

[FridgeFreezer]

Surely just buy an ex-MOD LHD one from any of the surplus/disposal dealers in the UK and ship it out. Judging by some of the prices we've seen abroad for LR stuff, you won't find cheaper than UK.

[Cartman]

I wouldn't go with the military LR option if you don't want an extra pile of whoopass. A whole new heap of bureacracy has now opened up on that one from this year. See links below

'http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/euro...ide/index.html

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/euro...ate/index.html

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/euro...page51664.html

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/euro...page51544.html

http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file51545.pdf

From what I can make out on a quick read:

- Exporting restricted goods requires a licence.

- You also need licence to move goods on the military list to other European countries. This includes items under category ML6 (i.e. ground vehicles, containers and components)'

So if you feel the need then blow it over in blue

Paul

[FridgeFreezer]

I've seen some mention of this on the MV forums, the question is once it's left the army at what point does a green truck become a restricted military vehicle? OK stuff like tanks is clearly military and probably not for export to countries we don't like, but there are any number of vehicles which are to all intents & purposes just a normal one painted green.

I rather suspect once it's demobbed it's just a green landy on civvy plates.

[Cartman]

I've seen some mention of this on the MV forums, the question is once it's left the army at what point does a green truck become a restricted military vehicle? OK stuff like tanks is clearly military and probably not for export to countries we don't like, but there are any number of vehicles which are to all intents & purposes just a normal one painted green.

I rather suspect once it's demobbed it's just a green landy on civvy plates.

But it all depends on who is interpreting the EU/UK rules. We are talking about France after all? It is all very wishy washy and when cornered the powers that be don't know one end of their.........from their elbow

[FridgeFreezer]

True, but as I said - once you have a civvy plate on it it's no different than a normal landy someone may have rollered a bit of NATO green onto. There's nothing on the documentation to suggest it's anything else.

[headhunter]

Re "I was told that to covert a rhd landrover to lhd would take years of red tape and letters direct from landrover saying that the vehicle meets type approval etc."

It took over three years for my father to get his UK built caravan registered for use in France when they relocated there in the 90's.

Despite it being CE approved and better built than French models, he met officialdom at every turn, despite type approval letters and design plans extracted from the UK manufacturer.

Trailers and caravans in France have their own registration documents, lets hope we don't end up with that system here!

A friend moved to Spain 4 years ago with a LHD UK registered 110. (He had bought it in Oman, driven it back and registered it in the UK).

When he left the UK, he advised the DVLA that he was relocating abroad and permanently exporting the 110. He then tried to register the 110 in Spain, who still will not let him do so because the vehicle is not registered in the UK, even though it once was.

So his 110 is stateless so to speak and cannot be used.

I suspect he will have to break it for spares.

A warning to all, do your homework before you move overseas and plan to take a vehicle with you.

John

[Eightpot]

When you buy an ex-mod Defender, or I imagine any other piece of kit, there is no mention on the log book that it came from the military.

It will have no civilian registration number or history with DVLA, so a new log book is created, and the date you presented your paperwork at the vehicle registration office is the first registration date.

So my old 1986 90 was first registered in 2002, and I am the first and only keeper as far as paperwork goes.

[Cartman]

Very true Eightpot but the political suits who instigated this new rule haven't thought it through anyway. On the subject of V5's a mate has an ex-mil Stalwart and the V5 is similar to yours so whether it is 'military' or not is down to HMRC as you either leave or enter the UK or other EU port.

Another post from Dennis a regular on EMLRA.

'There has been some rumour regarding the rules of exporting of ex MOD vehicles

There are new rules and they are quite Draconian.

By EXPORT it means the physical act of removing the vehicle/item from the UK whether Permanently or temporary. So if you sell abroad it NEEDS a licence. If your off on your Holidays You NEED a licence.

If your vehicle is over 50 years old then you can get an open General Licence (OGL) on-line for free

This it where it get more complicated.

If your vehicle is Less than 50 years old and it is unique to the military, or adapted for/by the military You will need a SIEL (Standard Individual export licence) They are also free but take about 20 days. see below-

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/europeandtrade/strategic-export-control/licences/siel/index.html

UNIQUE - ANY 101, Lightweight,

ADAPTED - 110 with side lockers, FFR

The above are just a few examples and not exhastive.

These regs include SANKEYS, NATO HOOK, RADIOS and most other military hardwear

If you have any questions speak to MARK TURNER at the EXPORT CONTROL ORGANISATION , part of the Dept of Trade on 0207 215 4594.

He is a Land rover owner and is happy to help .

These regulations are REAL. I work for HMRC and can confirm this.

The vehicle /Items are liable for outright Seizure so ignore at your peril.

IF IN DOUBT ASK THE E.C.O.'

So what makes a vehicle 'military'. From the wishy washy guidelines linked about a NATO hook and a bit of IR paint is enough?

Anyway sorry for dragging it slightly off topic

Paul