Getting a 300Tdi ready for a LONG trip.

[tweetyduck]

Last year we went through all this as we wanted to spend over a year in Europe.

the best we got with car tax after actually VISITING the DVLA was 13 months, and that was a right mess about getting the MOT and tax dates bang on.

As far as insurance, it's a tricky subject, i'd make sure you read and re-read the small print, but bear in mind, insurance companies are (huge!) profit making organisations not charities, and if they can find a reason not to pay out (like the vehicle being in a not listed country or having conflicting insurance with another company) believe me, they will.

you have to remember, you need to comply with the British vehicle laws AS WELL AS the laws in the relevant country you're in.

As far as having to show an MOT, well realistically, they can refuse you entry to the country, which could also lead to you being unable to go back into the other.

best thing to do is imagine the worst case scenario if you didn't have one and they asked for it... because thats what sods law says will happen!

I recon if i Tax my car in the last week of my previous MOT i'll get tax for the next year.

Then once the previous MOT runs out (a few days later) re-MOT the car and leave the UK.

That way the new MOT will be running when the tax runs out in 12 months time. So just giving me a few days with a valid MOT to TAX for another year (online).

Trouble is the MOT will then expire only days into the second year of TAX.

Complicated and it makes my brain hurt thinking about it.

With the overlaps i have around 23 months TAX but no MOT half way through. If i follow the same pricipal for insurance i can also get 23 months legally. (as long as the insurance policy doesn't have to have an MOT, everythings fine).

So thats a 2 year trip completly legal (minus MOT) . I might have to waste money getting an MOT early but thats nothing. I can refund TAX and SORN the get everything in sync.

now thats what i call logic......someone please tell me if this doesn't work. I think it does. My diagram (yes i had to do one) does also.

So if i come back in month 23 i can legally drive to the MOT station and do it all again.

[FridgeFreezer]

If it's a TDi then you need to take a cambelt kit and everything that gets f***ed when it lets go. Aside from that, there have been numerous detailed threads on overlanding and vehicle prep on here so I'd strongly suggest reading up and taking in the wisdom of those who have been there and done it.

Oh and as for 5-6000 mile servicing - if it's being used off tarmac, you need to be under it every day with the grease gun. OK it doesn't need greasing daily, but it's an easy way to make you stare at the oily bits for 10 minutes every day, and you can spot a lot of trouble early with a grease gun in your hand.

Personally I'd take a Toyota Volvo Tatra

[hobson]

I'm pretty sure you need to have more that just a couple of days left on the MOT to get it taxed, because i was refused tax as i only had three days left on the MOT, but thats at a post office, so don't know about online.

and for your insurance to be valid you'll need tax, test and insurance. their might be little grey or non specific areas regarding things only being valid on day of test, but like i said, is it worth the risk?

i know one chap who had a company car, got pulled, the MOT had run out, and tried to argue that because it was only valid on day of test it was impossible to prove a vehicles roadworthiness unless it was MOT'd every day, which technically makes sense.

And guess what; the insurance would not back him up saying that the insurance for the period after the MOT expired was invalid as the vehicle was not proved to be in a roadworthy condition.

he got off with a fine for no MOT and three points for no insurance, but he had to pay the fine and take the points as the law says the driver of the vehicle is responsible for making sure the vehicle is road legal.

Look at it this way: imagine having a bad accident, being robbed, seriously injured etc. then imagine that happening in a foriegn country with carp healthcare and a beuracratic system, then imagine you don't speak the language. then imagine all that happening and the insurance refuse to do anything due to a piece of paper you didn't get.

it can and has happened.

But if you want to reassure yourself that these grey areas will be covered and everything will be ok, go for it.

[Aragorn]

Most insurance policies (infact every one ive seen) states "Nothing contained within these documents affects a third parties right to make a claim"

That basically means if you have that bit of paper, with your cars reg on it, and its in date, the car is insured as far as the road traffic act is concerned.

IE not having an MOT and not having tax doesnt matter, the insurance is still valid as far as the road traffic act is concerned. Yes the insurers may come after you to get their money back should you have an accident, but that wouldnt affect the insurers legal liability under the road traffic act.

As for the MOT, the MOT has to be valid on the day the tax starts for it to be issued. So if your MOT ran out on the 28th, and you tried to buy a tax disc for the following month on the 25th (or the 21st or any other day) it wouldnt be allowed.

If however the MOT ran out on the 3rd, and you were trying to tax it on the 28th, that should be fine.

[tweetyduck]

Thanks both (three actually). Really good stuff.

I still intend to make sure whoever i get the insurance off knows exactly what i'm doing, why, how and where. In writing with proof they accept that i will have no MOT but will have valid road tax.

Lets make this clear. Everyone will know what i'm doing. No lies will be told. If the law allows me to get my Tax disk with a MOT with only days left to run (from abroad) and on insurance that will continue to cover me when the MOT runs out then as hobson says all my grey areas will be covered....subject to another 50 hours of research of course!

1. If i can find insurance to cover me that allows for no MOT.
   
2. If the border crossings never ask for an MOT (indications are not)
   
3. If i my timeline does everything is think it does.
   

I will have about 23 months to get done what i want to do. In regards to point 2. The EUCARIS system the EU states use to share info doesn't share MOT records (need to confirm this). Plus its only active in a few countries at the moment. Worse that can happen is i get a fine (possibly points). As long as point 1 is sorted then i'm happy to risk having no MOT.

As long as the vehicle stays registered in the UK and has Tax i can drive to an MOT station all the way across europe in the allowance of going to a MOT station with a booked appointment. If they want to be picky and say you need an MOT in europe then surely driving to an MOT allows me to get to the UK to get on performed. (a dash from somewhere not in the EU back to the UK)

[neildon]

If i got my self a 300TDi and spent say £8-10K on it with 100-130K miles could i get this to a almost as new state by spending another £5K?

replace chassis, bulkhead, suspension, etc, etc,

What else should i do and how much approx including labour from a prep place? I want it to need nothing doing for a long time. At least no service items. I'd get belts and any service item replaced. If i needed to get clutch, gearbox done and even a full rebuild i would.

Am i mad? Is this even possible? Can you go out and by a wreck of a LR 130 300 and make it into one 10 years younger. Buying new is not an option due to carnet cost. Could i even get a scrap 130 and buy all the bits new for someone to do it for me?

I know i sound like i'm made of money (i'm not) but were gonna live in this thing for three years !

Is there somewhere that would do this for me?

thanks guys. one of these day i'll be able to offer help and not just ask......

Hi,

Im very new on here and new to Land Rovers.

I bought an 87 plate Defender to do the Macmillan 4x4 challenge in, thinking I would just buy an old one and slowly get it ready for the trip.

Fortunately for me the chassis is in excellent condition but I have already spent a lot of money replacing the suspension and brakes and swapping the engine to a 200Tdi (previously petrol).....

My point is, that with the best will in the world, buying an old one to restore or rebuild will cost far more than you budget for, it just seems to escalate beyond reality and you just get drawn in. Dont get me wrong, I dont regret it or resent a penny but it just amazes me how fast the money streams out.

Im hugely satisfied with what I have now which is lucky as I now intend to take it overland to Corsica too.

If you have the money to buy a newer one in really good condition then i would think that that is the sensible option, but like I say......Im new here!!!!

There is a wealth of knowledge on here but the bottom line is.......you have to make that final decision, would I change the way I went....not a chance, Ive loved watching my car come to pieces and then go back together again but it is time consuming and expensive.

Best of luck with your decision

Neil.

[tweetyduck]

CUT. post 31

I'm doing nothng but reading....

Rest assured i'm not doing this lightly. I might just take a mechanic. I could abduct someone from a show. I really need some training to go with the LR. A lot of things to do. Too many.

[neildon]

I'm doing nothng but reading....

Rest assured i'm not doing this lightly. I might just take a mechanic. I could abduct someone from a show. I really need some training to go with the LR. A lot of things to do. Too many.

Just out of interest, whereabouts are you?

It may be worth you popping along to an overland prep company and seeking their advice.

Thats what i did, fooloishly or wisely...who knows...too late now though and I believe they were fair with me all the way along.

i use them to service my Nissan and they have just done all the work on my defender too and I cant rate them highly enough, their advice was sound all the way along and every time I asked them about extra bits they either said yes of course your the customer or they said dont be so silly etc etc.

Like I said, I feel they were fair with me at all times and will always go back to them now.

There are plenty of the overland prep companies about so there is likely to be one near you.

Neil.

[FridgeFreezer]

With reference to your original question, there's no point spending big money (or indeed any money) buying something you're going to dismantle and rebuild/recondition. May as well start from scratch, buy a pile of new bits and just SVA the finished article as a bitsa. Then everything is new, built exactly how you want, and you know it inside out. Your budget (13-15k) should more than cover it.

[tweetyduck]

two posts with i suppose the same answer.

Combine overland prep company and pile of bits....(PM'd you my location)

with the SVA once its MOT'd first time is it all normal after that or is it a pain in the arris?

[hobson]

Aragorn

"Most insurance policies (infact every one ive seen) states "Nothing contained within these documents affects a third parties right to make a claim"

That basically means if you have that bit of paper, with your cars reg on it, and its in date, the car is insured as far as the road traffic act is concerned.

IE not having an MOT and not having tax doesnt matter, the insurance is still valid as far as the road traffic act is concerned. Yes the insurers may come after you to get their money back should you have an accident, but that wouldnt affect the insurers legal liability under the road traffic act."

Thats true, under the road traffic act the third party is always covered, so the other person(s) would get paid out.

but would you? take into account the cost of:

vehicle

all your kit

personal health

all the time and effort you'll put into this trip

is it really worth risking NOT getting a payout if something goes t*ts up? do a search on here and read about all the issues different people have with insurance companies, they might be your best friend when taking your money but they seem to change a bit when it comes to giving it!

[Happyoldgit]

My view:

My other views (in the way of general comment not aimed at anyone in particular) is that to get to know any vehicle properly you need to do as much of the repair and preparation work yourself. Doing this, as opposed to simply resorting to chequebook preparation by farming everything out to others, means you stand a better chance of being able to repair it yourself and not rely on other people.

Saying that you lack the time or knowledge to be able to do so does not cut it with me - you need to make the time and learn ...by actually 'doing' or at least trying to 'do'. Yes you will make mistakes, but that's just part of the learning process.

Buy a Land Rover (or other vehicle). Use it, fix it, improve it, modify it, get to know your vehicle - then think about taking it away. When you know what makes it tick surely you stand a much better chance of knowing what to do when something goes bang out in the middle of nowhere.

[hobson]

You should change your name to MiserableoldWISEgit!

All the above is spot on, even though i did a vehicle mechanics course years ago, i'd say 90% of what i know is all down to taking things to bits and putting them back together, especially with landrovers.

if you can't fix it in the UK under ideal conditions what hope have you of fixing it in Africa?!

And yes i agree this is getting a bit off original topic, but i thought we were covering all the bases as far as expedition travel, and paperwork is a big part of it!

Neill seemed happy anyway....!

[mmgemini]

I agree with Martin. Being a mechanic means I don't have those bills to pay.

Look at the Defender Centre. Marc only sells Ex utility vehicles. Choose your vehicle and run it for six months. THEN and only then think of what you will need.

Before any long trip replace the clutch if you don't know the history of it and carry a spare unit.

mike

[Godlykepower]

My other views (in the way of general comment not aimed at anyone in particular) is that to get to know any vehicle properly you need to do as much of the repair and preparation work yourself. Doing this as opposed to simply resorting to chequebook preparation by farming everything out to others) means you stand a better chance of being able to repair it yourself and not rely on others.

Saying that you lack the time or knowledge to be able to do so does not cut it with me - you need to make the time and learn ...by actually 'doing' or at least trying to 'do'. Yes you will make mistakes, but that's just part of the learning process.

Very well put Steve.

My own garage are brilliant when it comes to teaching me things like this. Its the kind of place that is still family run, where people pop in for a social chat or a cup of tea, and not necessarily to have work done.

I try to do most jobs on my Defender myself if I can. I usually call one of the lads at the garage & pick their brains for advice first, as they are very, very good at making an accurate diagnosis from me describing odd random sounds. I will then make some notes on what I have to do to fix it, if it sounds easy enough & not going to leave me immobile if I attempt the repair at home, and get it wrong. Otherwise, I will pop round on my day off & do the work myself at their garage, using their tools and knowing that they are only a few feet away if I need some help.

In no way am I close to being brilliant at repairs yet, but by doing this - and looking over my mechanics shoulder at every opportunity, if they are doing the work - my confidence in attempting any repair in the first place has shot up immeasurably.

I know its still small potatoes, and technically very basic, but my partner was having trouble with her Peugot 206 overheating awhile ago, and me owning a Land Rover, and being hands-on with it, gave me the confidence to get stuck in there and rootle around. I ended up only changing the thermostat, but it left me feeling happy & satisfied that we had not had to take the Peugot to a local garage & pay even a few £££'s to get it fixed up.

As time goes on, I try to get in as much Spanner Time as I like to call it (said in a 90's MC Hammer style.. "Stop! Hammer time") and I sometimes just get my tools out, and just look inside the engine. I make visual checks that nothing looks untoward, and just see if I can name all the parts (dont mock me, please!) and just randomly check nuts & screws for tightness. I like to lay underneath too and do the same, although not much tightening goes on.

I have arranged with my garage, that the week before we leave for Africa, I will be doing a weeks unpaid work for them. Basically, a short, fairly intense apprenticeship into Land Rovers. In addition to working on other vehicles that come in, I will personally do all the work on my own vehicle needed prior to leaving, with them talking me through it i.e Full service, wheel bearing check/replacement, prop UJ's etc.

This still, will not make me the worlds best mechanic, but it will only stand me in good stead if something when something lets go when i'm inevitably in the middle of nowhere.

[mmgemini]

A well maintained, correctly serviced vehicle, with a known service history over the last twelve months, shouldn't require any special preparation for a trip of any length. Provided servicing is continued at the specified intervals.

mike

[FridgeFreezer]

A well maintained, correctly serviced vehicle, with a known service history over the last twelve months, shouldn't require any special preparation for a trip of any length. Provided servicing is continued at the specified intervals.

That may be true in theory, but in practice there are a lot of bits that just aren't worth having on the vehicle in a part-worn state, even if they have life left in them. It's far easier to do things like bushes, clutch, cambelt, bearings, UJ's, brakes, suspension etc. when you're at home with all the tools and time and a ready supply of parts rather than in the middle of nowhere in the baking sun or pouring rain.

[mmgemini]

That may be true in theory, but in practice there are a lot of bits that just aren't worth having on the vehicle in a part-worn state, even if they have life left in them. It's far easier to do things like bushes, clutch, cambelt, bearings, UJ's, brakes, suspension etc. when you're at home with all the tools and time and a ready supply of parts rather than in the middle of nowhere in the baking sun or pouring rain.

I don't expect to see any worn parts on a correctly maintained vehicle. I would expect those to be renewed when found on inspection. I wold also expect a correctly maintained vehicle to pass an MOT at any time.

I remember servicing my Defender in Maun Botswana at a friends house. One u/j had very slight play. I would have just greased it at home and kept a check on it, however as I was expecting to be doing another 4,000 miles, some on unmade roads I changed the u/j.

There is a lot of responsibility in taking your own vehicle to strange parts. So far I think I've been lucky on my trips. One u/j and one wter pump. Three trips 40,000 miles

mike

[tweetyduck]

all good advice. I do intend on getting as much experience as i can and will also follow the rule (now called "Mikes Rule") if its just been replaced its less likely to need replacing. This is all over a year away so i will be doing some work myself and likely whatever i get put on the LR will be taken off by me and then put back on even (if its theoretically, what if i had to?)

there's been discussions in the household about getting a 130 300 station waggon and a roof tent initially (forgetting the Azalai for now). Getting it full prep'd but only going east as far as Russia on the third shakedown. The shakedowns before that are UK (1 week) and Europe (3 week ish). Once i'm happy we know what we are doing planning the longer one.

I'm about to ask...110 or 130...(the 130 is better for the Azalai if we ever decide).

Thanks for all the help guys...at least we're back on track.

[FridgeFreezer]

I don't expect to see any worn parts on a correctly maintained vehicle.

I didn't say worn out, but if for example a part has an average of 10,000 mile lifespan and you're planning on driving 5,000 miles, it would seem easier to stick a new part on as part of the prep work and hopefully save yourself the bother of it reaching the end of its life miles from home at an inconvenient moment. TDi cambelts being the prime example of this, better to change it at home before it dies than suffer a lunched engine in the field.

[mmgemini]

FF Cam belts.

I have known genuine belts to fail withing a month of being correctly fitted......I put those as part of a regular service schedule....I do my belts every two years. Better the devil you know at times.

Yes I too would change service items early if they were nearly up to the time/ mileage interval....

I remember when I rallyed my IMP. I would change the Rotoflex couplings on the drive shafts every three rallies... I did a normal three event change, only for one to let go 150 miles later...It cost us a championship.

I also know of a couple that prepared a Defender for a trip. They changed a lot of components, whitch I would have left, only for some of those new parts to fail in Africa. You can't always win.

mike

[tweetyduck]

Its always a lottery. I've just posted a couple of 130 box bodies in another thread. Wondering what everyone thought.

If i (they) change the chassis,, at least i shouldn't break that.......although i bet you can if your a complete numptie.I'm already planning the education sessions on the LR. I think i should at least know how it works if not how to fix it. I'm going for how it works first. How to fix it will hopefull follow on.

If i change a load of parts that don't need changing at least i'll know how. Might be money 50% well spent. The wife will not agree. I have mentioned i did three weeks in Australia the other year haven't I....so i'm not all green...just mostly completely.

[reb78]

You seem intent on changing the chassis whatever. If you buy correctly there really should be no need and you'll have ~£2000 more to spend on servicing fully or a better vehicle in the first place. My 110 is 20 years old and as a whole the chassis is good (and thats not because its been really well looked after either) so the stuff you're looking at should be much better.

[tweetyduck]

You seem intent on changing the chassis whatever. If you buy correctly there really should be no need and you'll have ~£2000 more to spend on servicing fully or a better vehicle in the first place. My 110 is 20 years old and as a whole the chassis is good (and thats not because its been really well looked after either) so the stuff you're looking at should be much better.

Thats a pretty good point. I was presuming i was going the get a real dog and just spend the money on replacing stuff. The ones i've seen are pretty good and you're correct no reason why its not going to be fine. I'm by no means intent on anything as you guys have the habit of making me reconsider. I've seen a nice 110 that i may go to see, although its a bloody long way. Trying to find one nearer as i'd rather get it locally just in case of problems.

[Godlykepower]

I was presuming i was going the get a real dog and just spend the money on replacing stuff

Do you even bother reading some of the replies some of us have offered?! I did actually mention already, not needing to have to do a chassis replace, if you get a vehicle with a traceable provenance, as one of the first replies at the start of this thread.

Trying to find one nearer as i'd rather get it locally just in case of problems

And following on from my train of thought of only dealing with one of the big name dealers.......give Mark at the Land Rover Centre a call. Their website looks a little barren at the moment, but they can source anything you like, very quickly. The beautiful thing is, they will deliver the vehicle to you. Mine was delivered free of charge, but they may now make a small charge, given the economic climate.

Either way, the service, reputation & quality of vehicles available from the Land Rover Centre, is absolutely superb. This is the place that Richard Hammond got Buster from, and you can read the story, and see the pictures, of the seven day conversion of that vehicle, to see the depth of knowledge, and quality of vehicles that they turn out there.

Martin