muddyplugger Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 Does anyone tow a Military Sanky using a 'dixon type' pin hitch? My reason for asking is that the NATO hitch I have is not going to fit on the crossmember of the defender, due to the size of the tyre on the rear door! (235/85x16) I am hoping I can attach a pin type hitch, as its somewhat shallower, but the Sanky's ring is quite thick and I wonder if it will fit a standard pin hitch/dixon type hitch? Experience welcomed!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minivin Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 supposed it depends on the load that your be putting in the Sankey, I hear (not having a license to tow such items doesn't help) that these pins are frowned upon, but that maybe when fully loaded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddyplugger Posted April 11, 2006 Author Share Posted April 11, 2006 Not really bothered about the load, as will never be much, my concern is of the physical size of the ring fitting the hitch. However, you raise a valid point! Can one recover a vehicle with such a hitch safely?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I understand that the heavy duty four-bolt type Dixon Bate hitch will fit a 76mm NATO eye (according to the DB website anyway) but a standard 2 bolt one type 201661 (as supplied by Land Rover as a genuine part) definitely won't because I have seen those and they are much too small. Look here The one you need is 201910, the 4 bolt DB hitch which is rated at 5 tons which is way over the top! I seem to recall that some Camel Trophy Discoverys were fitted with these hitches, and I doubt you will need to worry about breaking one to be honest - any more than you would have to worry about breaking a NATO hitch which has a minimum tensile strength of something like 22 tonnes.... big spreader plate behind the crossmember is the important thing. You can fit a NATO hitch on the crossmember with a 235/85R16 spare wheel, it is just very tight which means you need to open the back door to hitch the trailer on, which may be a PITA or may be bearable, depending on how often you tow the trailer. It is a problem because as you have no doubt found out, there is not room to open the top of the jaw with the tyre in place. Basically you can get around the clearance problem by opening the rear door, lifting the top of the hitch, putting the trailer on, closing the hitch and then closing the door again, I have to do this with mine if I have a spare on the back door but most of the time my spare lives on the roof rack on the 90 so not a problem. It is mildly inconvenient, that is all, unless you tow a trailer every day when it would probably start to irritate! The 4 bolt DB hitch will probably have the same problem though, as it fits to the same four bolt holes as a NATO hitch (higher than the 2 bolt hitches which go through the bottom set of bolt holes on the x-member) so I would be almost certain that the pin would hit the spare wheel and you'd still need to open the door to hitch the trailer up... Edited to add: The "pinball wizard" combination ball-jaw hitches won't fit a NATO either as they have the same jaw dimensions as the 201661 type jaw. the only other pin hitch I have seen that will fit a NATO ring is the old 2-bolt galvanised type of hitch that LR used to supply years ago (no longer available) but that is actually too big and so it is horribly clonky to tow with - but it will fit! I'd get a NATO hitch and put up with opening the back door each time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 and furthermore if anybody can break either a NATO or a 5 ton DB hitch recovering a vehicle then you are trying too bluddy hard and need to slow down before you kill somebody!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars L Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 And when you have opened the back door and lifted the trailer in place, you can't close the door because the trailer's parking brake handle gets in the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Or you get smart, release the parking brake and are so busy watching that, you skin your knuckles on the jockey wheel. Or else you don't lift the jockey wheel and wonder what the odd noise is for the next five miles. Alternatively, learn all the above lessons and the door just clears the parking brake handle. You load a car on to the trailer, slam the rear door and find the geometry has changed, ruining a nice rear door by ripping the bottom edge of the skin off. Ask me how I learned these gems... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjojjas Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 ....and then you can't wind the jockey wheel down because the handle fowls the spare fitted to the aftermarket rear wheel carrier.... The pin I think your on about isn't recommended for the nato type eye as the eye is too fat and when it moves about its got the potential to jam. I looked into the same thing before I bought my sankey a couple of months ago. I have a nato hitch on my dixon bate drop plate that works well. you can drop it below the larger rear wheel. But the posts above are right, the sankey brake and jockey wheel winder all foul on the back of the 110. Jas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 the only other pin hitch I have seen that will fit a NATO ring is the old 2-bolt galvanised type of hitch that LR used to supply years ago (no longer available) but that is actually too big and so it is horribly clonky to tow with - but it will fit! Does anyone remember the bright orange hitches that were prevailant several years ago, usually available through farming outlets, they did a "wide jaw" and a "narrow jaw" type, and the "pin" went down through the top of the 50mm ball. the wide jaw one will take a NATO 76mm eye, rather clunk-ily, but it'll take it. i've got one in the garage somewhere if anyone (muddyplugger) wants it. i think the bottom needs straightening as i bent it on a ledge, but i can get the oxy torch and warm it up a bit first. i can't find any pictures of one on the interweb thingy, but i'll take a holiday snap of the one i've got if anyone is interested? Matt Savage do a rather wide jaw'ed combination hitch (3rd one down) which might do the job. edited to say: i've just found a pic of the one i've got: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exmoor Beast Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I had one of those orange things on my Range Rover years ago. It bent. Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I bent the bottom of my one (as stated).... i had it on the front bumper of my 90 and caught it on a concrete knife-edge on Salisbury Plain. it'll straighten though. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddyplugger Posted April 12, 2006 Author Share Posted April 12, 2006 This is great advice guys, I think I may squeeze the NATO hitch on the crossmember - as I will only use the trailer once a year or so, I might put up with broken knuckes, scraped skin and the rest of the aggro that goes along with the door. Thanks for the offer of the hitch diesel_jim and now I have seen what you mean I do believe I have something similar that I removed from the vehicle when I bought it!!!! (albeit on an adjustable screw tow plate thing) I'll check it out. I'll let you know if I'm stuck, nice offer thank you. Ill post up a pic when its done! (I hope) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I straightened one like Jim's (but thicker, and cast) a while back. The top hole and bottom hole were perfectly parallel but offset because the 'return' bend was evidently in a different place, I had to hammer the pin back in and then it never came out again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Well all I will say to that is you lot need to improve your co-ordination I have had a Sankey for about 6 years now and have never had any problem with the door hitting anything on the trailer nor have I left parts of fingers, nails or anything else behind and it isn't for lack of overloading - I think the trailers are rated at 3/4 ton? well I have had over 2 tons of crushed rock in mine... The only thing to remember is not to slam the back door with the top of the NATO hitch in the up position because that does make a mess of the door bottom Alternatively if you are only towing it once a year it ain't a huge job to take 3 nuts off and chuck the spare in the back. Cheapo hitches designed for mean farmers - well you get what you pay for. Be aware that on some of them the (welded on) ball can be rated to as little as 500kg rather than 3.5 tonnes on the proper forged DB item, and most I have seen are only 1.5 tons or so. The military LR's that are here mostly have the NATO hitch fitted on a sliding drop plate, that way you can use it on the next hole down and have none of the above problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjojjas Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 no problem with coordination. It just catches the door. I have one outside the house now, and when I open the door I must take the handbrake off first....then it hits the top of the jockey wheel handle. My jockey wheel handle cannot be turned either with the wheel fitted to the rear door, although this is an aftermarket wheel carrier. Jas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddyplugger Posted April 12, 2006 Author Share Posted April 12, 2006 My Sankey doesn't have a jocky wheel! It has a huge swing down adjustable leg. I don't even like using the handbrake, damn thing welds the drums tight if you leave it for a few months! I also fancied using the NATO hitch for recovery too, but I don't want to put it on a drop plate for the obvious plough effect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Neale Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 My 2p worth... I've got a 5 Tonne DB pin hitch (the 4 bolt version in the link above) fitted to the cross member on my 110. I use it as my rear recovery point (same as the Camel Trophy vehicles) I stuck with it despite having a NATO hitch due to the fact that the NATO fouled the bolts on the rear tank guard (It's a Southdown type with the detachable drop plate for a standard trailer hitch). My sankey fits quite nicely on this hitch, and no probs with the spare fouling as that's on a heavy duty swingaway wheel carrier from bearmach. This carrier sets the wheel offset to the right (when viewed from the rear) which also means that access to the rear door handle is unrestricted. A standard 3.5T pin won't work with the military ring hitch as fitted to a sankey as it's far too small - however I also run a DB 3.5T ball and pin combination hitch on the removable drop plate - this gives me the flexibility I need to tow just about any type of trailer - ie two sizes of pin plus a 50mm ball, various heights, and no worries about a drop-plate grounding out off road. When I get the chance I'll post some pics.. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 no problem with coordination. It just catches the door. I have one outside the house now, and when I open the door I must take the handbrake off first....then it hits the top of the jockey wheel handle. My jockey wheel handle cannot be turned either with the wheel fitted to the rear door, although this is an aftermarket wheel carrier.Jas interesting - is it a non original jockey wheel? mine doesn't have one (big swing down leg as described) nor does Dad's nor several others that I have seen. mine doesn't have any brakes either but that is another story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeagent Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 mine has no brakes either, took them off as they were forever jaming up, i dont put a lot of weight in it, usually just rubish to the tip, and i reckon you can put almost 500 Kg in it before you exceed the 750 Kg limit for an un-braked trailer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmatt Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I tow our sankey based log splitter with a 5ton D&B Jaw and pin purley because it was cheaper than a second hand Nato hitch. I have never had any problems whatso ever. Those orange hitches are still available through some Ag dealers though they are not recommended by many people as they bend so easily because there is no up down movement for the tow ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjojjas Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 interesting - is it a non original jockey wheel? mine doesn't have one (big swing down leg as described) nor does Dad's nor several others that I have seen.mine doesn't have any brakes either but that is another story Never thought of that, It certainly looks original, its only been out of army use for a few months. Look here... its got 4x fold down legs underneath. Jas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 It does look original, but it is different to the ones I have seen here (all ex British Army as you would expect!) Hmmm no brakes ... so putting about 2200kg of -20+10 gravel in mine might have exceeded the unbraked towing weight ever so slightly then unladen on weighbridge - 2500kg (90 and trailer) laden was 4700 odd oops no wonder the suspension looked a bit flat. They don't bounce when they are like that though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Mine also has the big windey leg on the front, and 2 drop down on the back (well, one, until i fit the new one i got at Sodbury! ) Needs a new tub though.... are paddocks (was it paddocks?) still selling the "new" ex stock they had? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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