So what do i do?

[Aragorn]

So as per the other thread about my V8 it seems the engine is a bit "knackered".

So the question is, what do i do with it...

The body isnt in the best of condition, the bodymounts have been welded up previously and the sills were roughly patched up last MOT, so i'd imagine that its probably going to need more welding for its next one too.

I see the options are basically keep it and fit another engine as and when i can afford it, sell it and buy something else, or break it and hopefully make a reasonable amount to buy something else.

I baught to truck for some cheap offroading and as yet the only mud its seen is when parked up at my mates farm when i first baught it. My 90 project really should be getting some financial attention, but other things keep popping up (like the A4 requiring a new engine, clutch, turbo etc) and i dont want the disco to become yet another drain on resources, although welding it up isnt an issue financially as i do have the kit, i really hate working underneath cars with a welding torch!

I'm really not sure which approach to take, i'd like to actually get some offroading done, but being the middle of winter isnt ideal, and if i was to sell it, selling now with 6months MOT is better than waiting until summer and its run out. If i was to sell it though, i have to wonder what the chances are of buying a better truck for the money...

I could break it, but then i'm struggling to see what parts on there are actually worth anything. Axles might be worth something, wheels and tyres are for the 90 so they aint going, engines gubbed, so that only leaves the tranny and txb, and any interior bits n bobs.

Any pointers would be much appreciated!

[mobyone]

well, depending on how shot it is, you have a few choices...

1/ remove body and cut it up for repair sections, namely front corners of engine bay and rear floor panel, doors etc, transmission tunnel...

2/ as above but just ditch the body. for scrap it weighs in as alot of metal. and keep the rolling chassis with the intentions of learning all you can on the running of the rv8. you will certainly find it easy to crack your megasquirt on that without the body in the way, then transplant it wholly(minus the engine) into your defender project-****keep the tranny tunnel from dico***.

3/ remove the engine and put it on a stand and rebuild it, parts really are not that expensive- i say that as yours still runs, so as long as it is only the camshaft and worn oil pump drive gears and timing chain stretch, you will pick aftermarket cam up for not that much, and the oil pump drive gear usually wears on its sides, which you can emory down flat again by using emory stuck to a flat sturdy bit of would and liberal engine oil to lube up the emory. timing chains dont cost too much either.

4/ sell the whole thing and be done with it, safe in the knowledge you know more now about these for the next time you buy one.

dont know about the defender project you are doing, but if it is a v8, then learn megasquirt on the disco minus the body and transplant, or if you are td5/200/300 tdi 'ing it then sell the g/box(£150) tx box(£100) axles(£100 each) and props(£50 the pair) and all ancilliaries like dizzy(depends how good it is for how much it is worth) should get you at least £500 and if the heads are good you should get a bit for those aswell.

so there you go

richard

[Aragorn]

Rebuilding the engine thats in there doesnt seem like a good option, its a poverty spec 3.5L 8.13:1CR engine and even after rebuilding it with shinys its still going to struggle to make 140hp. If a new engine was on the cards i'd want a 3.9/4.0/4.2 motor and i'd be megasquirting it.

The 90 project is getting an Audi V8 which can actually do more than 5 miles without wearing all its internal components out The Audi V8 will be staying on the OE engine management, because i'm never going to get it as well mapped with 'squirt as Audi have managed with the Bosch Motronic, and i'm safe in the knowledge that when i turn the key it WILL start every time.

I do fancy learning 'squirt, but that needs a drivable motor, as once the basics are done and its running, you really need to drive it to map it, which means it all needs to be fitted to a working MOT'd and Taxed Truck.

I guess i could pull the old engine, and sell the good bits off to help pay for the replacement engine, some luddite will no doubt pay good money for those carbs and a working dizzy!

Or i use it as is, and keep my eyes out for a replacement engine in the mean time, and deal with the sills/body mounts when Mr Mot Man waves his magic wand.

[FridgeFreezer]

Having a plaything will mean you never finish the 90, so either sell it or scrap it (easiest option is bung it on eBay and someone else will buy it & make the decision for you).

Even if it ran fine, as soon as you go playing you will be spending time & money on it that would be better spent on the 90. Being unable to play is a decent motivator too.

While I was building the 109 I specifically refused to off-road my runabout RR - when it needed new tyres I bought AT's not MT's, I didn't fit recovery points or raised breathers, etc... I have a mate who has less self-discipline and was famous for once having 5 LR products on his driveway and having to drive a £500 Ford Transit to work because they were all broken

[landmannnn]

Sell it!

[Aragorn]

Fridge, yep i hear ya, but otoh, once i've got the 90 finished i wont really want to wreck it rallying it round some pay and play site. I'd much rather have an old binger i can play with and not worry if it ends up on its roof or has the side taken out of it by some ill placed rock...

Plus then, when the drivetrain ends up all over the floor from said playing, its a weekend toy so i dont have to worry about it so much.

I feel an old motor like this is the perfect candidate for having a tinker with megasquirt too, or even converting into some spaceframed trials thing. All of which are reasons why i baught it in the first place.

I recon discounting the wheels and tyres i've spent just over £500 getting it where it is, including buying it, and going on the figures quoted above, it seems that i can break it at any time and make back what i've spent on it so far, so selling it on ebay for £4-500quid with half an MOT probably isnt worthwhile, when compared with simply keeping it for the rest of the MOT and trying to get some use out of it...

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Well, you could return the engine to some of its former glory by investing in a camshaft, lifter & timing set ……….. If the job went well and you are careful I guess you are looking at the thick end of £150 ……… based on £100 for the cam, lifters, & timing gear ……… £50 for gaskets & coolant etc……….get a 3.9EFI cam as that is cheaper and a good substitute for the 3.5 cam……….

Done carefully, its about a day’s job ……done not so carefully and you will be looking at broken timing cover and water pump bolts etc………..

Another £30 would see new gears in the oil pump which is another worthwhile investment…………..

The rest of it is just fabrication and welding ........ no real cost apart from consumables, just loads of time..........

[Orange]

Do some research on the prices... The ones quoted above are a tad over the mark if you ask me. I certainly had trouble shifting propshafts for anything more than £20 each and axles (guessing 10 spline as it's a 3.5) are worth about £50 each for the whole lot - well, that's what I payed for a late front one with ABS a couple of years ago. Broken down into their separate parts, they may fetch a bit more. I've never paid more than £20 for a 10 spline diff and £25 for a pair of half shafts, but I know others do.

Use the 'completed listings' search facility on ebay and you will see what items are actually selling for.

Be realistic. The £150-200 that you are going to spend on getting the engine up and running again may be a bit of a wild goose chase, too. When it comes to the end of the current MoT, it's going to require more work and the amount invested in the engine won't be recovered if you then decide to sell or break it...

You could find something fairly cheap on ebay as a play thing with 6 months MoT and Tax for the time being, probably being sold by someone in the same boat as yourself. Don't hold out for a minter, but just get something for the time being and concentrate all of your 'spare' time and funds on getting the 90 roadworthy/rebuilt...

[Aragorn]

This is the thing though, i could throw a new cam at it for £150, and it could sort it right out. Or i could do that then when its in bits notice that parts X Y and Z also need replaced, and then parts A, B, C, D and E may as well be done when its stripped and before you know it you've spent over £500 rebuilding a clunker.

I suppose the other side of the coin is that i could just as easily buy a replacement 3.9 for it to be in an equally bad condition.

If a good condition 3.9 can make 180-190hp then 400cc drop in capacity should still manage 160-170hp which is plenty, so the only concern with the 3.5 is the compression ratio. I've seen the SD1 engines quoted as being 190hp though and they're only 3.5's...

If i ignore the CR for now, and fit a 3.9 cam and eventaully megasquirt, can i expect to see over 150hp from this engine?

[Aragorn]

Orange, i dont think there isnt much point selling this and buying another truck the same with the intention of only running it for 6 months and then throwing it away, i may as well just run this one for 6 months...

[Aragorn]

One interesting point, the engine code "27G" is an odd one because most Disco engines are "xxL"

Looking thru the parts catalog, the Disco 27G motor shares the camshaft and restricted inlet manifold with the 3.5L V8 fitted to the Defender, so its likely it left the factory with a non-lumpy camshaft anyway, and probably only made about 110hp when new...

A 3.9 cam and some EFI would probably wake it up nicely.

[FridgeFreezer]

If you're that worried about it, rip the lump out and spend £250 on a running 3.9 EFI lump which will definitely have more power and be ready to MegaSquirt without buying more bits. Can't see the point in polishing a turd. Run it, use it, do whatever you want and then when you want to build something, build it with the bits you want - none of the basics are expensive.

If your Disco is a bit crusty anyway you're no worse off flogging it and buying a complete but crusty RR 3.9 or 4.2 for £300-500 and basing your project on that, at least you start with a decent lump and all the plumbing done for you.

[Aragorn]

Hmm maybe that does make more sense...

If i was to sell it i'd need to find some wheels and tyres to put on there...

Isnt it a bit of a challenge to find a manual RR?

[FridgeFreezer]

Well if you buy a RR it will have a set of wheels & tyres so you can swap them, although I think most people have a set of manky RR alloys & tyres somewhere they'd be glad to give you. I just gave a set away. As for finding a manual one, they're in the minority but not exactly rare.

You need to work out what you want to end up with - what will it be for, what does it need to do, how much money should it cost. There's no point starting with one vehicle and then changing every single piece of it for something different one by one, just start with the right pieces. It's easier and cheaper in the long run even if you lose some money on this Disco - chalk it to experience and don't let it drag your future plans down.

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

These days you would need to look very long and very hard to find a ‘good’ 3.9 …….. most will have moon miles on with very little in the way of service records…….. I guess the same is true of the 4.6, however, these tend to fair a little better with regard to cam wear etc………there will be a fair few that have been cast aside due to liner issues………….

From the info I have to hand……….

22L, 23L, 24L, were 3.5 disco engines, and 35L, 36L, 37L, 38L, were 3.9 disco engines. however there were also 3.5’s using 22D & 27G ….plus the Disco II 3.9 which was 56D…………

The 27G is detailed as 8.13:1 , 140bhp, Manual 5sp, SU HIF44, and introduced in 1989.

The highest bhp factory for the 3.5 was the Rover SD1 Vitesse & Morgan +8 with 194bhp, closely followed by the TVR350i with 190bhp (although TVR are renowned for inflated bhp figures !)…………..all of these were 9.75:1 CR and the majority were flapper injected…….. The Rover P6 with the 10.5:1 engine only developed 164bhp using twin SU HS6’s. Also the P6 engine would have had the smaller valved head……….

I have also built 3.5’s with a known 190bhp ………..

I Would suggest that getting it through an MOT is your first priority and then think about the engine …………. To get big ponies everything has to be perfect, so whilst replacing the right cam will return it to some of its former glory ………MS set up correctly will give you about 30 ponies over carbs, however, to release the true potential you would need to think about a full rebuild with some careful thought and a few specialised parts ………….at the end of the day its a disco and will never be a pocket rocket ………… whilst you can improve the 0-60 times considerably its still going to handle like an overloaded wheel barrow……….. when I used to push my 90 into 3 digits, even a 3 lane motorway suddenly became a narrow road !

[Aragorn]

BBC: its already MOT'd, doesnt run out till june/july next year, hence the option of just using it as it is.

I can see the point of swapping it for a RR or injected disco, i want EFI, so instead of spending ££ buying all the parts and fitting them to the disco, it makes more sense to buy an EFI truck in the first instance, OTOH it might mean a whole heap more welding just to get the replacement truck an MOT.

Manual is a must, i dont do autos.

I guess its weighing up whether i'm going to lose more cash buying the EFI parts and fixing the cam, or selling it as is and finding something else. Looking thru ebays completed items seems to suggest that for £500 i'm not going to end up with anything BETTER than what i have already, bar having EFI already.

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

I guess these days I would not be throwing a shed load of money at a 3.5 …………..£150 to get it running half decent is OK ...............but remeber that to convert this to MS you would be lookinjg at the thick end of £200- £300.

You can find a few 4.6’s around that are scrap due to liner issues …. Throw £1500 and a bit of knowledge at one of those and you are looking at 280 ponies without a lot of effort……….. plenty of 3.9’s around but most are generally knackered and overpriced ………..

The biggest issue with either flapper or hotwire injection is that the systems are now aged and full of issues (like everything Lucas) …….. nothing that cant be sorted but they are generally past their best………. Also if you like to play, then remapping is only possible with the hotwire and it requires chipping ……….. at least with MS you can just plug in the laptop and play until its right…………..

[Aragorn]

The money spent on MS is an investment though, and can be easily transfered to a new RV8 if this one does expire, or indeed any other engine. Also it would be getting converted to 'squirt regardless of it having a working EFI system, as i want to learn and have a tinker with MS.

I think spending £150 on the cam for the existing engine might end up with a better end product than selling up and buying another truck with what is likely an equally knackered 3.9, and quite likely more rotten bits...

[pw8757]

I've really enjoyed reading this thread. It puts all the issues associated with an older car in one spot.

I've just spent a whole load of time dealing with the "white" rust on mine and respraying it black. At various points I found myself driving past Twisted Performance and wishing I had the loot for a rapid Defender, but my Disco does all I ask, is smart enough not to shame me and not so pristine that I get precious about throwing a few bags of plaster in the back.

My next job will be to sort an engine - present one above 100k - but I suspect that my Disco will end up a bit like Trigger's Broom before I change her.

It seems to me that if the vehicle is doing the job you have for it and not taking time away from whatever else you have on, then just keep her going...............

[Aragorn]

Well thats what we've decided to do with the A4...

A lot of people would say its a 13yo car thats done 195k and now that the engines on its last legs its time for the scrapheap, but the way i look at it, ive changed all the suspension and brake components so i know all thats in good nick, and because germans can build cars properly theres not a spot of rust on it. If we scrapped it and got another one we'd need to spend a good 2k to get one in good nick. So instead i've picked up a replacement engine, and i'm going to replace the clutch, flywheel, timing belt, and related components. Probably end up costing 7-800quid all in, but its spread out over a fwe months of collecting parts, and once its all done its good for another 100k miles.

Doing the same with the disco will probably give the best outcome, I think i'll see about collecting the parts to change out the cam and collect the EFI parts and see how things go from there.