Jurriaan Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 For dad's 2.8TGV Ninety we're looking for a better clutch as we are replacing the R380 for an Ashcroft one with a better suffix also. Anyone tried these? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250575656158 Or any other suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Yes and No Paddfle clutch is what I use in my 4.5 V8 90 , but, and its a big but you have to get the right one 1 - It MUST have springs in the centre, otherwise it will rip the gearbox input shaft apart quick 2 - It wants to be a 5 or 6 paddle type, not a 3 or 4 3 - Use a std decebnt cover - Borg Beck anything cheap it will chew up 4 - Ensure you clutch release is sound and solid, on V8 90 etc I replaced the plastic carrier with a steel obe (Home made) as the heat will mealt the plastic, use a high qulaity release bearing too 5 - this unit will eat the flywheel, and you have to learn not to slip the clutch - you can but it will grip harder 6 - £250 is mad, go to O.C.R.A Bordon Hampshire, they make them to order at around £140 7 - do not fit a heavy duty race type cover, will make the clamp huge but heavy heavy clutch pedal- and no slip at all Get it right its a fit and forget upgrade, that even on the road you can forget whats in there, get it wrong and it will be a over heavy actioned unslipable nightmare that you wished you'd never ever fitted Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I recently baught a new engine for our Audi A4, which was fitted with a paddle clutch that had done only 9000 miles. It had also been fitted with a brand new solid flywheel at the same time (the A4 runs dual mass as standard) and the paddle was a 6 puck version with a sprung centre. The lot ended up in the bin it was that badly worn. Both the flywheel and the coverplate had huge grooves in them, and the paddle itself didnt look to have much life left on it, it was a sachs coverplate too, so not cheap carp. Having seen that, theres no way i could recommend it as an everyday item for a road car. Basically when you slip them, unlike a normal clutch which grips less, as the paddle heats up, the heat makes it grip harder and harder, exactly the opposite from what your wanting when your trying to manoever the car round a multistory carpark or whatever, and as a result it tears into the flywheel and cover. I've looked into TDi clutches quite extensively, as i'll be running one on my V8, and the TGV chaps have given me a lot of good info. From what i can tell, the usual starting point for a TGV motor is a "high clamp" coverplate, and a 130HD friction plate. Unfortunately the 130HD plate is a flimsy piece of carp and invariably disintegrates, ripping the centre out of the disk. M&D will sell you a Super Sparkly Extra Heavy Duty clutch with added Myrrh for about a million pounds, and this does seem to work, but it is stupidly expensive (something like £400-500 iirc). What i have found though, is a friction plate from a Ford Sierra Cosworth, which fits the TDi input shaft pretty much perfectly, and looks far far stronger and better built than the crappy 130HD item. I've got a photo of the two side by side that i will dig out for you. I'm planning on using that disk, with an OE Audi coverplate for my engine, but i'm sure it would work just as well under the TDi "high clamp" cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Cossie clutch on the left, TDi clutch on the right: Cossie disk on the R380 shaft: I should also say I'd like to thank TSD for the heads up on the cossie plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I thought that the 130 drive plate had 8 springs in it not 4 like a disco 200 plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Yeh, thats a standard TDi plate in the picture. Be interesting to see how the centre hub differs with the 130hd item. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Found one: Does seem to look better than the stock clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurriaan Posted February 22, 2010 Author Share Posted February 22, 2010 Nige, Thanks for the information! Haven't called ORCA yet, will they need a standard clutch plate to fit it with paddles? Aragorn, Thanks! Nice idea to keep in mind for my 110, no Simexes and competition there, so should be a nice upgrade to the 130 one. Do I need a model year also, or will just 'Sierra Cosworth' be enough to order one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I purchased and did not use a paddle clutch as when I investigated further the issue of flywheel damage and lack of ability to slip the clutch repeatedly could not be addressed. So I fitted a 130 clutch and correctly adjusted the pedal which had caused the demise after 300miles of its predecessor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 They're all the same. The part number is on the disk, if you want to crossreference it etc. Theres a different kit between the 2wd and 4wd cossies, but its only the release bearing thats different afaik, as one uses a B&W T5 box and the other uses a Ford MT75. Its a bit tricky getting the disk on its own, but i found mine from a guy on Passionford, who had baught a kit and only used the coverplate and release bearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Depends if they have stock, otherwise supply a knacked unit they rebuild and don't use much of it anyway TC is right, as is Aaragon, it WILL wreck your flywhhel, however with a std cover (even a HD one) you can slip the clutch, peeps who have driven mine had no idea it was a paddle clutch, until they hit traffic, then constant slipping made it grip, and it was / is then "Fun" However, with the BHP I'm running its the same clutch that was in the Hybrid, with a rebuikld when I changed the gearbox this year - erm thats around 10 years abuse use which works for me I prev did a centre clutch in 2x per year sometimes - being seriosuy stuck, slipping clutch then it smelt - then it died later BUT it will eat your flywhhel aND cLOVER, AND BE HARDER And no traffic friendly...... Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsr341 Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 i run a 6 paddle on my evo road car , but really wouldnt want one on my landy , especially if it where to be used off road winching etc , on the road generally lasts around 30K standard evo clutches where lasting less than 10K , i use a alu fly wheel with replacable friction plate , may be some thing can be made for the landy to save the fly wheel personally i would put the 130 pack in as all ready sugested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurriaan Posted March 11, 2010 Author Share Posted March 11, 2010 Get it right its a fit and forget upgrade, that even on the road you can forget whats in there, get it wrong and it will be a over heavy actioned unslipable nightmare that you wished you'd never ever fitted Nige Just spoken to first Rakeway and ORCA afterwards. Rakeway was a bit more expensive at 170 pounds *forgot to ask about VAT*, so I just bought the aluminium carrier at their place. They had an AP Racing organic clutch plate also for 130 quid *still don't know about VAT*, but decided to stay with the paddle idea for the Ninety. Called ORCA and spoken to Wayne. They're able to supply a 6-paddle for 110 ex VAT so I ordered one there. Thanks for the tip Nige! Will post an update as soon as it's built in with the new box, think we'll need some driving lessons on the clutch chapter Still don't know what way to go clutch-wise on my own 110 2.8TGV though. It will do less heavy off-road and more road miles including trailer, so I think I might go for the Rakeway suggested AP Racing organic clutch plate or a Sierra Cosworth one for it. Did order a Rakeway aluminium bearing carrier for it already, don't want it melted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andylandy Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 i have a 2.8 tgv with a few mods it pegged a rolling road at 500ibft and the bhp was good i used a paddle clutch which never slipped but i broke the gearbox in 1000 miles! and to be honest it was proberbly broken way be for then PM me if i can be of any help andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 Whats this aluminium bearing carrier then? Andy: you sure it was 500lbft and not 500nm? Even at 500nm, you wont be keeping an R380 in one piece for long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurriaan Posted March 12, 2010 Author Share Posted March 12, 2010 Whats this aluminium bearing carrier then? http://www.rakeway.co.uk/flywheels,%20clutch.htm i used a paddle clutch which never slipped but i broke the gearbox in 1000 miles! and to be honest it was proberbly broken way be for then PM me if i can be of any help Andy, will send you a PM. Might be nice for others to share it on the forum also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 ooooh i wonder if that can be modified to take a smaller contact ring, might have to give rakeway a call/email Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurriaan Posted March 12, 2010 Author Share Posted March 12, 2010 might have to give rakeway a call/email They're not that much into emails, better to give them a call they told me on the phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 They're not that much into emails, better to give them a call they told me on the phone. Ye, but on the other hand, its easy for me to fire an email off while working, not so to sit on the phone chatting car parts Its also far easier to give dimensions, plans, and suchlike in an email, where it can be referred back to, than in a phone conversation where things can be missheard or noted down wrong! Plus i always feel that by calling a company, i'm taking up their time in a priority sense. If i call to ask about the bearing i'm not going to be buying there and then, the build hasnt progressed anywhere near far enough for that, so its almost as though i'm wasting their time. In an email they can read it, look into the details and reply in their own time, rather that pulling them away from actually making money to answer some trivial questions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 500ft/lbs = 677.908975Nm, from a 2.8???? a cummins 6BT only does 410Nm in std tune and that is 5.9ltr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callum Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 freelander 2 provides 400nm from a 2.2l Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurriaan Posted March 18, 2010 Author Share Posted March 18, 2010 Rakeway has arrived: Now it's waiting until O.R.C.A.'s clutch plate arrives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurriaan Posted April 6, 2010 Author Share Posted April 6, 2010 Paddle clutch has arrived also: Now have to find some time to mount it on the car.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoleTraveller Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Hi Guys I have recently acquired a TGV for my Defender 130 ex military ambulance. Still haven't decided on which clutch to use. I have a Valeo 130HD clutch plate but no cover yet. Will this plate be man enough? If not. What will be? Manufacturer/Part number? Don't want to use a paddle type. Which cover is recommended? Manufacturer/Part number? I have a Rakeway metal bodied clutch bearing. This has a replaceable bearing. Unlike the Britpart equivalent which doesn't. Any suggestions appreciated. And I agree. Rakeway do not like email. I had a reply rate of approximately 1 in 10. Resorted to paying them a visit in the end, out of frustration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Clutch pressure cover for the 130HD friction plate is URB100760 normally a Valeo item that LR factory fit to 130's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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