Paddle Clutch

[Jurriaan]

For dad's 2.8TGV Ninety we're looking for a better clutch as we are replacing the R380 for an Ashcroft one with a better suffix also.

Anyone tried these?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250575656158

Or any other suggestions?

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Yes and No

Paddfle clutch is what I use in my 4.5 V8 90 , but, and its a big but

you have to get the right one

1 - It MUST have springs in the centre, otherwise it will rip the gearbox input shaft apart quick

2 - It wants to be a 5 or 6 paddle type, not a 3 or 4

3 - Use a std decebnt cover - Borg Beck anything cheap it will chew up

4 - Ensure you clutch release is sound and solid, on V8 90 etc I replaced the plastic carrier with a steel obe (Home made)

as the heat will mealt the plastic, use a high qulaity release bearing too

5 - this unit will eat the flywheel, and you have to learn not to slip the clutch - you can but it will grip harder

6 - £250 is mad, go to O.C.R.A Bordon Hampshire, they make them to order at around £140

7 - do not fit a heavy duty race type cover, will make the clamp huge but heavy heavy clutch pedal- and no slip at all

Get it right its a fit and forget upgrade, that even on the road you can forget whats in there,

get it wrong and it will be a over heavy actioned unslipable nightmare that you wished you'd never ever fitted

Nige

[Aragorn]

I recently baught a new engine for our Audi A4, which was fitted with a paddle clutch that had done only 9000 miles.

It had also been fitted with a brand new solid flywheel at the same time (the A4 runs dual mass as standard) and the paddle was a 6 puck version with a sprung centre.

The lot ended up in the bin it was that badly worn. Both the flywheel and the coverplate had huge grooves in them, and the paddle itself didnt look to have much life left on it, it was a sachs coverplate too, so not cheap carp.

Having seen that, theres no way i could recommend it as an everyday item for a road car. Basically when you slip them, unlike a normal clutch which grips less, as the paddle heats up, the heat makes it grip harder and harder, exactly the opposite from what your wanting when your trying to manoever the car round a multistory carpark or whatever, and as a result it tears into the flywheel and cover.

I've looked into TDi clutches quite extensively, as i'll be running one on my V8, and the TGV chaps have given me a lot of good info.

From what i can tell, the usual starting point for a TGV motor is a "high clamp" coverplate, and a 130HD friction plate. Unfortunately the 130HD plate is a flimsy piece of carp and invariably disintegrates, ripping the centre out of the disk.

M&D will sell you a Super Sparkly Extra Heavy Duty clutch with added Myrrh for about a million pounds, and this does seem to work, but it is stupidly expensive (something like £400-500 iirc).

What i have found though, is a friction plate from a Ford Sierra Cosworth, which fits the TDi input shaft pretty much perfectly, and looks far far stronger and better built than the crappy 130HD item. I've got a photo of the two side by side that i will dig out for you. I'm planning on using that disk, with an OE Audi coverplate for my engine, but i'm sure it would work just as well under the TDi "high clamp" cover.

[Aragorn]

Cossie clutch on the left, TDi clutch on the right:

Cossie disk on the R380 shaft:

I should also say I'd like to thank TSD for the heads up on the cossie plate.

[Phil Hancock]

I thought that the 130 drive plate had 8 springs in it not 4 like a disco 200 plate.

[Aragorn]

Yeh, thats a standard TDi plate in the picture.

Be interesting to see how the centre hub differs with the 130hd item.

[Aragorn]

Found one:

Does seem to look better than the stock clutch.

[Jurriaan]

Nige,

Thanks for the information! Haven't called ORCA yet, will they need a standard clutch plate to fit it with paddles?

Aragorn,

Thanks! Nice idea to keep in mind for my 110, no Simexes and competition there, so should be a nice upgrade to the 130 one. Do I need a model year also, or will just 'Sierra Cosworth' be enough to order one?

[white90]

I purchased and did not use a paddle clutch as when I investigated further the issue of flywheel damage and lack of ability to slip the clutch repeatedly could not be addressed.

So I fitted a 130 clutch and correctly adjusted the pedal which had caused the demise after 300miles of its predecessor.

[Aragorn]

They're all the same. The part number is on the disk, if you want to crossreference it etc.

Theres a different kit between the 2wd and 4wd cossies, but its only the release bearing thats different afaik, as one uses a B&W T5 box and the other uses a Ford MT75.

Its a bit tricky getting the disk on its own, but i found mine from a guy on Passionford, who had baught a kit and only used the coverplate and release bearing.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Depends if they have stock, otherwise supply a knacked unit they rebuild and don't use much of it anyway

TC is right, as is Aaragon, it WILL wreck your flywhhel, however with a std

cover (even a HD one) you can slip the clutch, peeps who have driven mine had no idea it was a

paddle clutch, until they hit traffic, then constant slipping made it grip, and it was / is then "Fun"

However, with the BHP I'm running its the same clutch that was in the Hybrid, with a rebuikld when I changed the gearbox this year - erm

thats around 10 years abuse use which works for me

I prev did a centre clutch in 2x per year sometimes - being seriosuy stuck, slipping clutch then it smelt - then it died later

BUT it will eat your flywhhel aND cLOVER, AND BE HARDER And no traffic friendly......

Nige

[gsr341]

i run a 6 paddle on my evo road car , but really wouldnt want one on my landy , especially if it where to be used off road winching etc , on the road generally lasts around 30K standard evo clutches where lasting less than 10K , i use a alu fly wheel with replacable friction plate , may be some thing can be made for the landy to save the fly wheel

personally i would put the 130 pack in as all ready sugested

[Jurriaan]

Get it right its a fit and forget upgrade, that even on the road you can forget whats in there,

get it wrong and it will be a over heavy actioned unslipable nightmare that you wished you'd never ever fitted

Nige

Just spoken to first Rakeway and ORCA afterwards.

Rakeway was a bit more expensive at 170 pounds *forgot to ask about VAT*, so I just bought the aluminium carrier at their place. They had an AP Racing organic clutch plate also for 130 quid *still don't know about VAT*, but decided to stay with the paddle idea for the Ninety.

Called ORCA and spoken to Wayne. They're able to supply a 6-paddle for 110 ex VAT so I ordered one there. Thanks for the tip Nige!

Will post an update as soon as it's built in with the new box, think we'll need some driving lessons on the clutch chapter

Still don't know what way to go clutch-wise on my own 110 2.8TGV though. It will do less heavy off-road and more road miles including trailer, so I think I might go for the Rakeway suggested AP Racing organic clutch plate or a Sierra Cosworth one for it. Did order a Rakeway aluminium bearing carrier for it already, don't want it melted.

[andylandy]

i have a 2.8 tgv with a few mods

it pegged a rolling road at 500ibft and the bhp was good

i used a paddle clutch which never slipped but i broke the gearbox in 1000 miles! and to be honest it was proberbly broken way be for then

PM me if i can be of any help

andy

[Aragorn]

Whats this aluminium bearing carrier then?

Andy: you sure it was 500lbft and not 500nm?

Even at 500nm, you wont be keeping an R380 in one piece for long.

[Jurriaan]

Whats this aluminium bearing carrier then?

http://www.rakeway.co.uk/flywheels,%20clutch.htm

i used a paddle clutch which never slipped but i broke the gearbox in 1000 miles! and to be honest it was proberbly broken way be for then

PM me if i can be of any help

Andy, will send you a PM. Might be nice for others to share it on the forum also?

[Aragorn]

ooooh i wonder if that can be modified to take a smaller contact ring, might have to give rakeway a call/email

Cheers!

[Jurriaan]

might have to give rakeway a call/email

They're not that much into emails, better to give them a call they told me on the phone.

[Aragorn]

They're not that much into emails, better to give them a call they told me on the phone.

Ye, but on the other hand, its easy for me to fire an email off while working, not so to sit on the phone chatting car parts

Its also far easier to give dimensions, plans, and suchlike in an email, where it can be referred back to, than in a phone conversation where things can be missheard or noted down wrong!

Plus i always feel that by calling a company, i'm taking up their time in a priority sense. If i call to ask about the bearing i'm not going to be buying there and then, the build hasnt progressed anywhere near far enough for that, so its almost as though i'm wasting their time. In an email they can read it, look into the details and reply in their own time, rather that pulling them away from actually making money to answer some trivial questions!

[Phil Hancock]

500ft/lbs = 677.908975Nm, from a 2.8???? a cummins 6BT only does 410Nm in std tune and that is 5.9ltr.

[callum]

freelander 2 provides 400nm from a 2.2l

[Jurriaan]

Rakeway has arrived:

Now it's waiting until O.R.C.A.'s clutch plate arrives.

[Jurriaan]

Paddle clutch has arrived also:

Now have to find some time to mount it on the car....

[SoleTraveller]

Hi Guys

I have recently acquired a TGV for my Defender 130 ex military ambulance.

Still haven't decided on which clutch to use.

I have a Valeo 130HD clutch plate but no cover yet.

Will this plate be man enough? If not. What will be? Manufacturer/Part number?

Don't want to use a paddle type.

Which cover is recommended? Manufacturer/Part number?

I have a Rakeway metal bodied clutch bearing.

This has a replaceable bearing.

Unlike the Britpart equivalent which doesn't.

Any suggestions appreciated.

And I agree. Rakeway do not like email.

I had a reply rate of approximately 1 in 10.

Resorted to paying them a visit in the end, out of frustration.

[western]

Clutch pressure cover for the 130HD friction plate is URB100760 normally a Valeo item that LR factory fit to 130's.