P38 Cold staring problems

[tcmnorcal]

Need help trying to get a P38 started from cold (BMW 2.5DSL). was running fine up until about 2 weeks ago, then started to give trouble starting up every morning, assumed it was the glow plugs so changed them. this made no difference, it continued to be difficult to start but managed to get it going until finally last week it just would not start.

Turns over fine but just will no fire up.

Done so far

Put in new glow plugs

Changed the leak off pipes between injectors and back to the FIP

Added a non-return from filter to FIP

Removed the fuel pipe to the filter and there is flow when cranking the engine (tank is full)

Will change the fuel filter today

What else should I be checking?

Will put the battery on charge tonight just to make sure there is enough juice

Any help on where to go from here would be really appreciated

[Ally V8]

Have you checked to see if the glow plugs are receiving power when you switch on ?

[pete3000]

Need help trying to get a P38 started from cold (BMW 2.5DSL). was running fine up until about 2 weeks ago, then started to give trouble starting up every morning, assumed it was the glow plugs so changed them. this made no difference, it continued to be difficult to start but managed to get it going until finally last week it just would not start.

Turns over fine but just will no fire up.

Done so far

Put in new glow plugs

Changed the leak off pipes between injectors and back to the FIP

Added a non-return from filter to FIP

Removed the fuel pipe to the filter and there is flow when cranking the engine (tank is full)

Will change the fuel filter today

What else should I be checking?

Will put the battery on charge tonight just to make sure there is enough juice

Any help on where to go from here would be really appreciated

Have you checked for air bubbles in the clear plastic line from the filter, and bled the filter to the pump?

i.e undone the 17mm nut on the pump and got someone to switch on ign to pos two then nip up the nut?

like Ally v8 says check glowplug supply on preheat, then have a look at your stop solenoid. It resides on the back of the fip next to the fuel return pipes. it needs 12v to be energised, or allowing fuel to the pump.

if you get neither or one of these go for relay box by battery. or fuses.

next you may need to open the hp lines to each the injectors to bleed the air through them finally. check rave for the procedures, locations of parts.

only other idea is make sure the MAP pipe is connected to manifold

have you read my post earlier in the month p38 diesel starting saga.

[tcmnorcal]

Hi Ally V8

Will check today, electrics are not a strong point, assume volt meter black/negative to battery negative and red/positive to top of the glow plug. Switch on and should see 12 volt while plugs are on.

Thanks

Conor

[tcmnorcal]

Hi Pete

thanks for the list,

- Changed the clear line when I put in the non return valve but did bleed via the 17mm nut on the pump, till fuel came out.

- Checked the glow plug supply on preheat, all ok

- All fuses, all ok

- Dismantled the fuse box, no signs of corrosion, breaks or burns.

- Replaced the MAP pipe to the manifold, old one had a crack

- Checked the stop solenoid, all ok

- Read "p38 diesel starting saga", fingers crossed it works out so well!

still no joy starting the Beast

Yet to do open the hp lines to each the injectors, will post once this is complete.

Thanks

Conor

[SteveRK]

Not withstanding the amount of technology that modern diesels employ essentially it should start so long as its getting fuel.

This requires the pump to be working to get the required pressure for the injectors and then (if its a common rail engine)the engine management needs to actuate the injectors.

If its getting fuel to the injectors o.k. i would expect to see white smoke from the exhaust after a fair amount of engine cranking to confirm that fuel is getting into the cylinders. My expectation is that it isnt as its not starting.

[pete3000]

still no joy starting the Beast

Yet to do open the hp lines to each the injectors, will post once this is complete.

Thanks

Conor

How are you getting on Conor, any luck with fuel at the end of the h.p lines?

it has been a bit cold/snowy to be outside here recently.

Pete

[sheltie50]

Are you sure ALL your heater plugs are working and of good quality, seen lots of the cheaper ones failing almost before being fitted.

[chrisbowler]

Will it start if towed or bump started? Could be an internal pump problem that can't supply fuel at cranking speed but can at higher engine turn over speeds.

Chris Bowler

[teslo]

Will it start if towed or bump started? Could be an internal pump problem that can't supply fuel at cranking speed but can at higher engine turn over speeds.

Chris Bowler

No chance if it is automatic:(

Have you try to read faults from diagnostic?

[boony0123]

i have a similar problem with mine i replaced the engine in it as the cylinder head gasket had gone in the old one the new to me engine (second hand) had came with a fuel pump a\lready on but it would only ever start on easy start and when it was running it would missfire so i swapped the pumps over and it still wont start on its own but doesnt missfire and it drives like dream if you crank it from cold i get lots of white smoke out the back (raw deisel)clears up when its running 

 

 

i have change fuel filter/housing 

sender unit with pump

injection pipes 

map pipe

injectors 

fuel pump

fuel pipes

fitted a non-return valve

and the start of my problems the engine 

 

[Escape]

Definitely look at the glow plugs. Using easy start or similar can kill them pretty quickly.

Are you sure the FIP is correctly timed?

[boony0123]

im unsure if the the the fuel pump is correctly timed bu assumed ifs okay as it runs perfect when started ill look at glow plugs on the weekend ive checked for a 12v feed to them and they do 

i have also seen the there are still air bubbles going backwards in the clear fuel hose if you leave the car longer then a minuite or so it will struggle to start again but no need for easy start if you start it straight away there is also deisel leaking slightly for cylinder no1 injector leak off pipesi have changend them but it still leaks so im replacing the injector i think its cracked 

 

if you can send a link for the timing tool to time thr fip up that not too expensive i would like to check it 

cheers 

 

[Escape]

I'm using this one: https://www.hbm-machines.com/nl/p/hbm-dieselpomp-timing-afstel-gereedschap-set

It's cheap and the quality is good enough for the rare occasions I need it (I try to stay away from diesels...).

Once the engine is running, the ECM has a better chance to correct the timing being slightly off. But when starting an older engine needs all the help it can get. Do check the leak off pipes again and replace if necessary, if air can get into the injector rail they will not fire properly. If not seen a damaged injector yet, usually it's just the pipes. You can replace them with 4mm fuel hose, easier to get a tight fit.

Filip