stuck Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Gents, Had an issue with my clutch today (110 TD5) My clutch has always been at the top of the pedal but as I joined the motorway and changed gear the bite point was suddenly at the bottom. Problem got progressively worse until I couldn't get her out of gear and she was trying to go forwards even with the clutch fully depressed. Limped home in third and found that the clutch master cylinder was empty but no signs of a leak, have topped it up and bled the system and I can now select gears but the bite point is still right at the bottom so somethings not right. My guess is master cylinder but would appreciate opinions before I start ripping things apart. Thanks in advance, Mick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco-Ron Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Lay underneath and see if you have fluid dripping from the bellhousing, if you do, its the slave cylinder, if not, check for fluid on the clutch pedal itself.... if its there, then master cylinder.... however, whichever one it is, i would advise changing both, as they normally follow each other and whilst changing one, you might aswell do both..... Don;t get cheap..!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 Cheers for that, I have never bought pattern parts and never will, have tried the online suppliers I know of but can't find cylinders. Are my only options sh!tpart or main stealer?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soutie Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 I have a 200 tdi 110 which clutch slave cylinder went last weekend. I used a well know parts supplier and bought Lucas slave and master cylinders marked with a G after the part number. The parts arrived yesterday and they are in a TRW box. The master cylinder came with instructions marked TRW and lucas.I did an internet search and found that TRW had purchased Lucas. Has anybody had experienced using these parts and what have they been like. My last slave and master where in a green Lucas box. Has this changed due to Lucas been taken over by TRW? Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 TRW and Lucas are much and the same, you shouldn't have any problems with a TRW part Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soutie Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Got round to changing the slave cylinder yesterday. It appears that who ever did it last has rounded off the nut where the clutch pipe goes into the slave cylinder. I have tried 13mm and then 1/2 inch spanners and all slip. Rather than destroy the nut with a vice grip, could I take my 1/2 inch spanner and using and angle grinder put a slit into the ring end. Would this give better grip to undo the clutch pipe. I have done a goggle search and found that the offending articles part number is NRC9595. Is it better to order one now in case I destroy it? Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 I slotted a ring spanner once to try to undo a brake pipe end. As soon as I put a small amount of force on the spanner - half the ring end snapped. I would order a new pipe, but if you have a spare 1/2" spanner lying around, then give it a go. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diff Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Got round to changing the slave cylinder yesterday. It appears that who ever did it last has rounded off the nut where the clutch pipe goes into the slave cylinder. I have tried 13mm and then 1/2 inch spanners and all slip. Rather than destroy the nut with a vice grip, could I take my 1/2 inch spanner and using and angle grinder put a slit into the ring end. Would this give better grip to undo the clutch pipe. I have done a goggle search and found that the offending articles part number is NRC9595. Is it better to order one now in case I destroy it? Peter You could buy a proper brake pipe spanner. This is a single hex ring spanner with a slot in it. They have a much thicker 'ring' and won't open up like a diy slotted ring might. Or you could take the pipe off at the top end and slide a ring spanner down the pipe to get it undone at the bottom. Could also cut the pipe and replace with new. Regards, Diff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soutie Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I did slot the 1/2 inch spanner and it still slipped. I ended up taken undoing the top joint. Once off I tried filing two good flats and then hammer a 12mm spanner on to them and it still slipped. I eventually did get it undone with my biggest shifting spanner but as the bottom nut is beyond repair I will have to replace it. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soutie Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 I have eventually got round to fitting the new pipe between the slave and flexi pipe, plus bolted the new slave in. However now on bleeding the system the clutch pedal goes to the floor and does not return. I have a 300tdi clutch pedal box fitted with the spring that is supposed to help the clutch pedal weight. I was using a air pressure bleeder and the fluid had no bubbles in in when I had finished bleeding the slave. I have done a google search and it has through up a couple of idea. 1. I can't find a fluid leak so I have discounted that. 2. The Google suggests that the slave could be leaking - but I can't see any fluid down there. I will remove it to check further. 3. Google does not state anything about a spring to return the 300tdi clutch pedal. Is there a spring or is only the pressure of the hydraulic system? Are there any other suggestions on what else to check? I will check to see if the slave rod is still attached to the fork with that fiddly black clip, but should I be checking anything else? Should I also look at how I have adjusted the clutch master cylinder push rod? Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 you'll have to lift the pedal back up until most of the air has been expelled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soutie Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 I removed the slave cylinder to see if it was leaking then after attempting to bleed it with the aid of the wife pumping and lifting the pedal back up, then with the aid of the air bleeding system and lastly with the wife I gave up as the pedal would still stay down. I then removed the slave cylinder for the second time. I checked that the rod that the slave cylinder pushes on is attached to the clutch fork and it still attached. However when measuring up the slave cylinder next to the rod, one can see that it does not push the slave cylinder piston back but has it at it furthest point of travel. i.e if fluid went into the slave cylinder it can't push the rod out any further. Does this mean that the clutch has gone as I would expect the clutch fork to be hinged some how and pushing the rod backwards. This then pressurises the system and means that the pedal comes back once one has depressed it, which my system is clearly not doing? Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 300tdi pedal uses a overcentre assist spring, if the clutch hydrualics or the fork punches through the pedal will stay down when operated. have you got the bleed screw on the slave cylinder at the highest point ? if not you'll never bleed it free of air. when the master cylinder leaks you'll soon know as the fluid usually enters the cab & covers the drivers footwell/mat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soutie Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Western thanks for your replies, I have the bleed screw at the highest point. After trying for at least three hours to bleed the system I am now starting to suspect that the clutch fork has been punched through. I goes to show when you ask for a re-enforced clutch fork from you garage you need to see it. I did check the master cylinder and the pipe work are they are not leaking. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 or the fork punches through the pedal will stay down when operated. No it doesn't - the pedal is up and rock solid. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 how long has the current clutch & fork been fitted ? I wouldn't expect a new un-reinforced operating fork to punch through in a couple of months. getting a good strong light to illuminate the fork ball socket & your eyeball in the right place to see if it has gone isn't very easy, but not impossible. hopefully it's not as bad as the 1st photo, compared with a new un re-inforced fork in the 2nd photo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soutie Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Western, the clutch and fork where fitted in 2006. This whole episode started off when I noticed that there was fluid dripping out the bell housing drain hole. I have replaced the slave and master in about 2008 and they took about ten minutes to bleed, so was expecting the same. Looking at the bell housing the slave cylinder push rod extends out about 5mm when the slave cylinder is taken off. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 been in there a fair while then, I don't know how far the pushrod is meant to show from the mounting face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voevod Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 how long has the current clutch & fork been fitted ? I wouldn't expect a new un-reinforced operating fork to punch through in a couple of months. getting a good strong light to illuminate the fork ball socket & your eyeball in the right place to see if it has gone isn't very easy, but not impossible. hopefully it's not as bad as the 1st photo, compared with a new un re-inforced fork in the 2nd photo this standard fork failed after 54 days...do I need to say what colour of box it came in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulyalya Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 western, how did you take the first of those two pictures? Did you have to undo the bell? Where's the place the clutch rod pushes the fork? (see the picture) All of a sudden my clutch pedal became soft and the master cylinder empty. When topping it, we noticed a leakage from under the bell. So we took off the slave (cutting off the pipes), but I'm not sure if it's not the fork. I'll try to shoot a movie tomorrow and may be use a snake camera to see what's inside. The thing is either my tacho doesn't tell the truth, or my clutch was slipping on the fifth gear. (making 70kmh with 3500 revs isn't what I expected from the 5th gear). besides, the speedo isn't always correct (sometimes it' mistaken by 20-30 kmh), so I can only trust my GPS and my eyes... silly situation, but first we suspected the rear crank seal and oil contamination on the clutch plate, but the oil level inside the engine remained the same... So, what seems strange for me is that the pedal became soft that suddenly, at once. Besides, the rod can easily go from 7 cm to 1,5 cm out of the bell, moving the fork. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Those are not my pictures, found on internet & just posted to illustrate the fault. push rod acts on the small bulged area with fluid under the bell housing either the slave cylinder seals have given up or the piston has come right out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulyalya Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 hope that it's just the seal. btw, there was just one п-shaped seal (other people always use plural form which confuses me alot). besides, I had to cut the pipe, as i couldn't undo the fitting on the vehicle - later I used large vice clamps for the fitting and a big pipe wrench to rotate the slave - it was way overtightened... the thread is quite unusual - couldn't find anything similar in local shops, so asked a lathe operator to make a new one for me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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