ronnie_rotten Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I've been hearing some not so good noises from under and behind the truck cab of my pickup recently. I'll try to describe it, and somebody out there may have an idea... Firstly, sometimes when pulling off i get a loud, medium pitched 'ping'. I can get almost exactly the same sound by tapping the rear prop with a metal tent peg. (Yes, i have spent time under the truck tapping things with a tent peg. Good grief.....) More worrying but less frequent is the sound you would get if you held said tent peg against the spinning blades of one of those fancy chrome fans you see in 50's american films. (This i havn't replicated, but in my head, that's the sound!) This second noise doesn't happen much, but it was present after almost every gear change and occasionally when sat at constant speed when towing on monday. Lets just say it was a long, worrying drag back from the west of ireland! There has always been a need to go steady with the clutch on this truck to avoid clunky gear changes. Something i've always assumed was play in diff or t-box. Now i wonder if it's related to the 'ping-ticky-ticky' noises. The props and uj's are in good condition. The ticky-ticky 'tent peg in fan noise' increases in speed with the revolutions of the engine (more likely the gearbox actually). Seems worse when under load. I have had the pickup fairly loaded up in the past couple of months. Maybe carrying a lot has pushed something over the edge? My first thoughts was maybe something in the t-box, but could somthing in the handbrake drum be causing it? Any thoughts appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Could your clunky gear changes be due to worn out splines on gearbox output shaft/transfer box input gear? Just identified on a friends 110.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnie_rotten Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 Could well be..... would excessive wear there cause the disturbing noises i've described too? Gotta go to work now, will check back here after i finish and see what people think.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 The sound you describe doesn't match the sound I had when I had the issue shown in the video, the worn shaft on mine made a bang loud enough to make you soil yourself when ever the slack got taken up which would be gear changes, starting off, going from reverse to forward was always a doozy and not forgetting going from overrun to accelerating. I think you may have a different issue, however I have no idea what your pinging is. If you want to check for worn splines as in the video it's only 6 bolts to remove the cover and have a look though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landy andy. Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 It does sound to me like a prop uj, I know you say they are ok. Have you tried removing front prop, taking for a drive, then replace, remove rear prop and take for test drive, to help with diagnostics. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I'll second Andy here. Any tinny pimging noise and I'd go straight to the props. Did you have the handbrake off and out of gear when you checked the prop's/ u/j's ? The fronts u/ j's do seize and often the only way to check is to remove the front prop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveturnbull Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Third vote for a worn out UJ.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 The sound you describe doesn't match the sound I had when I had the issue shown in the video, the worn shaft on mine made a bang loud enough to make you soil yourself when ever the slack got taken up which would be gear changes, starting off, going from reverse to forward was always a doozy and not forgetting going from overrun to accelerating. I think you may have a different issue, however I have no idea what your pinging is. If you want to check for worn splines as in the video it's only 6 bolts to remove the cover and have a look though. Oops just realised you have two sounds and Mr EJParrot was talking about the second noise, that could indeed be worn splines on the gear box output shaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnie_rotten Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 thanks all for the replies. There certainly can be a trouser worrying bang on take off, though my softly soflty approach to the cluch seems to limit it a bit! I'll get the spanners out and do a thourough investigation of the props. That seems to be the general concensus on what's amiss.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Softly softly does limit it, when I drive the 110 (I have 'drive other vehicles' on my insurance) I tend to be quite gentle with it/the clutch in general, and it doesn't do it often on me. It does it every time on the owner, in all gears, because he's not as gentle as me. Sorry CW, I should have pointed out which noise I was referring to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Softly softly does limit it, when I drive the 110 (I have 'drive other vehicles' on my insurance) I tend to be quite gentle with it/the clutch in general, and it doesn't do it often on me. It does it every time on the owner, in all gears, because he's not as gentle as me. Sorry CW, I should have pointed out which noise I was referring to! You did say the clunky gear change so it was just me failing to read properly Worn splines do make you very good at gentle clutch work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnie_rotten Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 still havn't got under, but when driving today, there was a total absence of the 'multi ping' noises. So they were definately made worse when towing the caravan. My ever wise and practical missus suggested 'oh well, whatever it was has probably dropped off now. So that's good.' a girl after my own heart. If it ain't there, it can't make a noise.... : ) Is there anything simple and inexpensive to do about worn splines, if that's whats causing the clunk? Or do we just live with it until it 'drops off'. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 nope. Only solution is a new gearbox mainshaft and a new t'box input gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 nope. Only solution is a new gearbox mainshaft and a new t'box input gear. Not strictly speaking true..... there is a way to get a few more miles out of it (although it could be described as a bodge). You get the spline wear because the input gear isn't a cross drilled one, the cross drilled one has longer splines than the non cross drilled. So you get to run on the unworn parts of the splines on the gearbox, I have done this on an R380 so I don't know if the same applies to the lt77 .... anyway I've done about 12000 miles since changing the input gear and I haven't got my clunk back yet ..... my worn splines were almost completely gone at the time I changed the gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnie_rotten Posted May 19, 2012 Author Share Posted May 19, 2012 so in other words, remove the transfer box, swap out the input gear for one from a cross drilled transfer box, and run on that 'til the end of the splines on the gearbox output shaft wear away? You say bodge, i say excellent solution to an annoying issue! I suppose fitting a complete 'cross drilled' transfer box is the easier way of achieving the same effect? What year did the design change? How can i tell them apart? I'm currently running what a believe to be a 1998 gear and transfer box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) Well this is what my gearbox output shaft looked like when I removed the transfer box ... You can see the unworn part of the splines that can be used by the cross drilled gear. I bought a replacement transfer box that had a cross drilled gear in it as my transfer box was a little, ahem... 'past best' but you can of course just get the input gear from ashcrofts and use it in your old transfer box if that's still ok (this will involve reshimming the bearings). I'm sure one of the others will know when the cross drilled was fitted as standard, however there have been a lot retrofitted so it's down to have a good nose when you are buying. The input gear is easy to remove and the holes are quite obvious. EDIT: The picture is of an R380, I have no idea how long the splines are on an LT77. It would be a good idea to inspect the splines of your box before buying anything. It's very easy to remove the input gear with the transfer box still in place so can be done in about 20 minutes Edited May 19, 2012 by CwazyWabbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnie_rotten Posted May 19, 2012 Author Share Posted May 19, 2012 thanks for that. I do a bit of research on what's involved in removing the input gear, and maybe get on the case tomorrow. I always dreaded the day i'd have to go inside the spinning whirring nightmare that is 'the transmition'..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 It's just a case of removing a cover plate, then remove the bearing carrier (which sits behind the plate and the same bolts were holding it on). Then you just pull the gear out, that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Taken from tech archive post http://forums.lr4x4....t=0#entry150884 You now need to remove the input gear, which involves removing the rear cover and bearing track carrier. Remove the 6 x 17mm bolts (note ine should have a handbrake cable support bracket/clip on - they are normally brocken, but you can use the bracket with a cable tie to do the same job). You may also have an Earth cable attached to one of the bolts, as in this picture. With the cover plate off - you can see the bearing track carrier. Early 90/110's will have a couple of big cross-head screw holding the carrier in place, these will have to be removed. The carrier, and the input shaft gear still in position You will notice the red paste around the input shaft where it comes through the gear. This is an early sign of premature wear of the two due to poor lubrication. A cross-drilled gear will cure this problem. With a bit of careful wiggling of the gear and associated gears, it will come out of the transfer case. The input shaft - check the condition of the splines for wear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 BTW from those pictures the LT77 looks to have shorter splines, however you said you have a 1998 transmission so it should be an R380 and have longer splines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Yeah, the LT77s have shorter mainshaft splines. The longer splines on the R380 was another part of Land Rover's attempts to solve the premature wear issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Yeah, the LT77s have shorter mainshaft splines. The longer splines on the R380 was another part of Land Rover's attempts to solve the premature wear issue So why did they still fit LT230's with the short splined input gear to the R380? Seems a tad silly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 I can only assume it was a delayed intervention thing! Or perhaps the R380 was intended for other purposes than Land Rover fitment, so the longer splines were for that purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnie_rotten Posted May 20, 2012 Author Share Posted May 20, 2012 brilliant. Sounds like a job i can handle, even on a sunday! thanks for seeking out that thread, i appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 No probs enjoy your dirty sunday Even if the weather is too wet to do this from under the car you can also manage it through the access plate under the centre set/cubby box. Post some pictures so we may all see your wear (if any) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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