stuck Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Gent's, How are the domed rivets as used in the body cappings fitted? I've only ever used "pop" rivets in the past. Mick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Hi Mick, I've not seen any domed rivets in body cappings before...? you got any photos? Mav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fozsug Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 I think what you mean are Avdelock http://www.albert-ja..._h1_avdelok.pdf or Maxi lock http://www.albert-ja...0_h1_maxlok.pdf also known under different names from different manufacturers You need a special Gun to pull them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Domed rivets are used on Series 1 body work and you will need rivet snaps to fit the dome head and then iirc a flat anvil tool to rivet the other end to a flattened disc A rivet snap is like a cold chisel except it has a flat working face with a recess shaped and sized to fit the head of the rivet - in this case domed or half round , this is used to hold the head against the piece to be rivetted so heavier the better then the shank that is through the other side is flattened out to complete the job . cheers steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 A rivet snap is like a cold chisel except it has a flat working face with a recess shaped and sized to fit the head of the rivet - in this case domed or half round , this is used to hold the head against the piece to be rivetted so heavier the better then the shank that is through the other side is flattened out to complete the job . cheers steveb On thin structures like this, the normal method is always to have the snap in the rivet gun and thus hit the manufactured head, the rivet tail is reacted against the bucking bar - that's how aircraft structural riveting is done. Look at about 3.30 in this video for a demo: I think the method you describe is more akin to the ship building or boiler industry when components are much heavier. Julian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 You've blown my cover Julian I K Brunel is a hero of mine good find with the video , for aircraft panel replacement those temporary clamping rivet tools are handy - they can be fitted thru 2 panels from one side and tightened to pull the panels together and removed one at a time as the new rivets are fitted , can't remember what they are called though cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 You've blown my cover Julian I K Brunel is a hero of mine good find with the video , for aircraft panel replacement those temporary clamping rivet tools are handy - they can be fitted thru 2 panels from one side and tightened to pull the panels together and removed one at a time as the new rivets are fitted , can't remember what they are called though cheers Steveb Clecos or skin pins if memory serves. I was once a licensed airframe (and engine) aircraft engineer on wide bodies for a decade or so until I changed tack! I've often wondered why techniques differ between aircraft and ship builders, and came to two conclusions: 1 Ship structures are too hefty and 2 the rivets are upset when hot so they shrink and pull the components tightly together. Aircraft rivets are assembled with a clearance, ie a 1/8th (0.125'') rivet has a hole drilled out with a number 30 drill bit (0.1285) and by reacting against the rivet tail the thing expands into the hole with no clearance. That's my understanding, could be wrong. The easy way out with rivets if close to an edge is to use rivet squeezers Julian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dads Toy Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Cleco's - and very handy they are indeed though you do also need the special pliers to insert/remove them. Malcolm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 they are hammered in the same way that old ships were hammer riveted together, the difference being the LR rivets were ali, and therefore didnt need heating to mushroom the ends, the downside to that is they often come loose and rattle, as the steel ones were heated, as they cooled they contracted, meaning a tight, and even watertight fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Cleco's - and very handy they are indeed though you do also need the special pliers to insert/remove them. Malcolm You can get ones with a 'thumb wheel' at the top (skin pins) - no spring, just a central threaded spindle so no special pliers required. http://img.webme.com/pic/p/pembleton-archives/screwcleco.jpg These type have a much better pull allowing you to pull things together that otherwise would tend to spring apart. Clecos are quicker to use however. Julian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 Cheers chaps, Should have said it was a S1 I was talking about, sorry. Reading this it would suggest that they are hammered in, does anyone have a link to what tools are needed (apart from the hammer obviously) or indeed what diameter drill I should use to remove the old ones so that I can get the cappings galvanised? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 you need the rivets themselves, which are soft alloy, and you need the hammer and what i would call a dolly but thats probably wrong which cups around the domed face of the rivet to hold it in place whilst the other side is being riveted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Cheers chaps, Should have said it was a S1 I was talking about, sorry. Reading this it would suggest that they are hammered in, does anyone have a link to what tools are needed (apart from the hammer obviously) or indeed what diameter drill I should use to remove the old ones so that I can get the cappings galvanised? Rivets are not 'hammered in,' that's for nails and wood! Ignore some of the misleading information here! You need one of these, a rivet snap: (of the correct size to suit the rive) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AIRCRAFT-TOOLS-NEW-1-8-401-STRAIGHT-RIVET-SNAP-5-1-2-LONG-/160853163082?pt=UK_Air_Tools_and_Compressors&hash=item2573987c4a This fits in your windy hammer. And some sort of bucking bar: (block of metal, shaped if access is difficult) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bucking-Bar-647-for-Riveting-use-w-Rivet-Gun-Ductile-iron-NEW-/270983299498?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f17dd01aa Practise first on scrap or you will fill your Landy with circular divets :-( See the instructional videos on youtube. To remove a rivet, first centre punch the MANUFACTURED head, never the formed head as only the manufactured head is guaranteed to be central to the rivet tail. Run a pilot drill most of the way through then open up with a drill the same (nominal) size as the rivet, then with luck a few sharp taps with a punch should see it drop out. If you've drilled squarely and centrally you should not have touched any surrounding material with the drill - this takes much practise! Julian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 To fit a domed or even a countersunk rivet you will need a "snap" and "set" http://www.aluminiumwarehouse.co.uk/Hand_Tools-Engineering_Tools-Rivet_Set_(Set_&_Snap)/c219_370_1571/index.html More information here.... http://voices.yahoo.com/how-set-rivet-hand-pop-riveter-597507.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 ali rivets can also be chiselled off but for this you have to be careful of the bodywork! i would only chisel a rivet off a steel face as its way too easy to damage the ali bodywork Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Rivets are not 'hammered in,' that's for nails and wood! Ignore some of the misleading information here! You need one of these, a rivet snap: (of the correct size to suit the rive) http://www.ebay.co.u...=item2573987c4a This fits in your windy hammer. I don't use powered riveting hammers, I use these: http://www.modelmakingsupplies.co.uk/rivets.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I don't use powered riveting hammers, I use these: http://www.modelmaki...o.uk/rivets.htm I'm not sure if you'd get away with it on thin skin, you wouldn't find find one in use in an aircraft hangar as I suspect the solid 'thumps' from a hammer would create a dent in the skin, and the riveters would have arm ache in a jiffy. :-) Certainly OK for riveting brake linings onto shoes or model loco boilers etc but I'm not sure on thin skin.... maybe I'm wrong? But the little windy hammers are only a few quid from Machine Mart and are useful for all sorts of things! Julian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I'm not sure if you'd get away with it on thin skin, you wouldn't find find one in use in an aircraft hangar as I suspect the solid 'thumps' from a hammer would create a dent in the skin, and the riveters would have arm ache in a jiffy. :-) Certainly OK for riveting brake linings onto shoes or model loco boilers etc but I'm not sure on thin skin.... maybe I'm wrong? But the little windy hammers are only a few quid from Machine Mart and are useful for all sorts of things! Julian. 0.5 mm alumium sheet thin enought ? It's knowing how to use the tools For brake linings I used to use a bolt in the vice the size of the rivet head. Then a socket to set the rivet followed by a bolt with a point ground on the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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