FutureKiwi Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Greetings learned ones, I've been a lurker on here for a fair while but luckily never needed advice or felt strongly (or witty enough) to join in. That all changed today. My 200 Tdi 90 has started blowing a bit of blue smoke recently so I convinced my self it was time for new rings (which I'm not so sure of now). So for the last 2 days I started taking it bits thinking it didn't look too difficult (how many of us have ever thought that!). I should have known better! After taking the top end off, I turned my attention to the bottom end, removed the sump, swore at the oil pump, whacked it a few times until it came off then all that stood in my way was the ladder rack thingey. So, undo the 10 bolts (like Mr Haynes says) but I could only find 9 . Looked over and over again but still only 9 (holes). Ok, took them out the tried to separate it from the bottom of the block which is when things started to go wrong. I could get a stanley knife inbetween the ladder rack and block at the front but as I worked backwards, it would get tighter and tighter and wasn't going to come apart. After quite a few attempts I finally spotted what could be 4 horizontal bolts through from the (inaccessable) flywheel housing into the back of the ladder rack . I gave up at this point! So, does anybody know if the ladder rack (then pistons) can be removed while the engine is in or should I be looking up some new and more varied swear words? I've never taken one of these apart before so any advice would be warmly welcomed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 the crank ladder frame can only be removed with the engine out of the vehicle. note in Genuine LR Defender workshop manual says ------------- the ladder frame & flywheel housing are secured by 5 bolts which are inaccessible with the gearbox bell housing fitted, therefore it is not possible to remove the ladder frame when the engine is in the vehicle, without first removing the main gearbox or engine, flywheel,flywheel housing,engine sump & oil pump. 7 bolts around the rear end of ladder frame [3 acroos rear & 2 on each side adjacent to sump] 3 on right front side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 I'm not sure that's what he wanted to hear Ralph. Could the ladder rack be left in situ and the pistons removed upwards through the bores? Though I'm not sure what evidence he has to say it is rings and not something else such as valve stems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Not much use now, but if I suspected rings, but wasn't sure, I would have got a compression test. I don't think you'll be able to pop the pistons with the ladder rack in place. You need to undo the big-end bolts and then shove the con-rod/piston out the top of the bore with a suitable drift. I've never had the sump off a 200TDi. If you can get at the big end cap bolts, then that's ok, just leave the ladder rack in place. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonk Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 you do have to remove the ladder frame to get at the big ends, only way is to take the engine out to do this though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutureKiwi Posted September 7, 2006 Author Share Posted September 7, 2006 Wow! Thank you all for the super fast responses Western/Tonk, though not what I wanted to hear, your answer is just what I needed! I now have to decide what to do next - even more work or put it back together and hope it's the top end. Les/LR90, unfortunately, the Ladder Rack Frame is a flat casting sandwiched between the sump and bottom of the block which is almost completely solid except for one hole for the oil pump and one for the dipstick so no chance of getting to the big ends . I did a compression test which put all 4 around 300 psi IIRC but a friend (who has much greater mechanical knowledge) convinced me it was the oil control rings. BTW does anybody know how much the complete engine (with head & most ancils) weighs cos my engine stand is rated at 227kg and does't look manly enough to take the weight? Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigster Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 buy a bigger one... 1/2 ton is better... I wouldn't be happy leaving an engine on a 1/4ton stand - way too expensive if it did just happen to fall over/break. on that note - I do have a spare 200tdi block for sale, and crank and head if wanted.. all in bits, bad bit - block needs a once over in the bores. Wow! Thank you all for the super fast responses Western/Tonk, though not what I wanted to hear, your answer is just what I needed! I now have to decide what to do next - even more work or put it back together and hope it's the top end. Les/LR90, unfortunately, the Ladder Rack Frame is a flat casting sandwiched between the sump and bottom of the block which is almost completely solid except for one hole for the oil pump and one for the dipstick so no chance of getting to the big ends . I did a compression test which put all 4 around 300 psi IIRC but a friend (who has much greater mechanical knowledge) convinced me it was the oil control rings. BTW does anybody know how much the complete engine (with head & most ancils) weighs cos my engine stand is rated at 227kg and does't look manly enough to take the weight? Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 I'm not sure that's what he wanted to hear Ralph.Could the ladder rack be left in situ and the pistons removed upwards through the bores? Though I'm not sure what evidence he has to say it is rings and not something else such as valve stems. maybe so, but to remove the pistons/bigends that's the only way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutureKiwi Posted September 7, 2006 Author Share Posted September 7, 2006 Pigster, I already have an engine in bits, why would I want another one? Altough, having given it a few seconds of thought, it could prove theraputic to beat the carp out of it with a sledgehammer every time I got frustrated with mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 I think that if you are going to remove the pistons because of suspected engine wear, then it's worthwhile taking the engine out and stripping it completely. The whole thing is then re-conditioned and almost as new. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 when exactly was it smoking? overrun? load? idle? could also be turbo oil seals or valve stem seals/guides depending when it blows oil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutureKiwi Posted September 8, 2006 Author Share Posted September 8, 2006 The vehicle is showing 150,000 miles but was ex-council so could have been well maintained or thrashed? As soon as I had removed the head I could still clearly see the cross hatching in the bores (not on the thrust side of the bores), no lip at all at the top of the bores and what I reckon to only be light amounts of carbon build up on the piston crowns and bottom of the head. The Head gasket was not showing any signs of leaks and, although I have not had the valves out yet, there certainly wasn't any oil dripping out of them. The only suggestion of an oil leak was that the carbon on no2 piston looked a little damper than the others (which were all bone dry). Bores were all dry too. The intercooler hoses and inlet manifold all have a thin film of oil dust in them but no pools or sludge or anything. It wasn't smoking much but would often do so so noticably from cold but this would often go away after fully warmed up. Its never been visible while driving at speed even though I have a side exit exhaust which is clearly visible in my mirror. Usually 'puffed' smoke at idle but absolutely no smoke on overrun and the oil system never seemed to be over pressured. It passed MOT emmissions last week no probs but I need to sell soon so thought I better get it fixed before then (it looked like a simple job back then remember Taken a few days off to forget about it and get some parts so hopefully next post in a few days will have loads of these: in it? Thank you all for your advice and comments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 rings would smoke under load, sounds more like turbo oil seals to me especially with bores in such good sounding condition and it puffing at idle - turbo oil seals get swamped with oil at low speeds and leaks bot into inlet and streight into exhaust housing check the turbo shaft for play very slight sideways movement is ok - less than a mm - but any in-out play probably means it needs a rebuild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil90 Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 Sounds like a typical land rover engine to me a bit of smoke when cold then nothing when warmed up other than maybe a little on idle unless it was a brand new engine which with 150000 on it isnt but then that is only just run in Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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