P38 2.5DT won't fire.

[neonovice]

I have a 97 P38 diesel, I went to it the other day and it would not fire up. It turns over no problem but does not even offer to start, not even a cough or splutter. It is getting fuel through as far as the injectors so I'm happy it's not the lift pump.

I have done some digging around and I think it may be an issue with the BeCM. I have a Hawkeye Pro but to be honest I am not 100% confident in using it yet.

Can it be used to reset the codes sent out by the BeCM?

[David Sparkes]

Have you tested the heater plugs? I mean removed them and applied 12 volts, comparing them with each other?

I understand it's pretty cold in Aberdeenshire. In cold weather the BMW engine won't start without heat.

If you have the kit you can do a rudimentary check by looking how much current is drawn (6 by 16 amps). Do be aware that it is possible for a plug to take most or all of its electricity, without the tip getting hot enough to really be effective.

It isn't easy to remove the heater plugs, and very easy to drop the nuts that secure the wiring, so have something underneath to catch them. You will also need gaskets for the inlet manifold. It's also easy to drop the nuts that secure the manifold. Note that they are a special size (large thread diameter, small AF measurement) so buy in a pack of those as well.

I'm a little bemused by what BECM codes you think might be missing if the engine turns over and fuel issues from the injector pipes when you loosen them off.

If the BECM was failing the security test the starter would not be energised.

Good Luck

[chrisbowler]

Can you use the hawk eye to read the EDC code. If so check that the EDC code in the BeCM is the same as the Engine ECU. They can loose the code and that will make the BeCM think is is running the wrong engine.

Chris bowler

[neonovice]

Hi thanks for the replies. I will try the glow plugs, I know that there is already an issue there, they only come on when the car is cold. If the engine has any heat when you try to fire it up the glow plug light wont even come on. It has never not fired before though just usually takes an extra couple of turns.

I'm not sure exactly what I can and can't read with the Hawkeye, I will have a play around and find out.

[q-rover]

Easiest way to make it fire, use petrol and a match.

[neonovice]

Easiest way to make it fire, use petrol and a match.

Ha

I hooked up the Hawkeye and got the fault codes 10 136 and 27

136 is needle lift sensor?

27 is engine speed?

10 is something to do with fuel?

Any ideas?

[pete3000]

needle lift sensor is on an injector (the one with the wire coming off) inj 3 or 4 from memory. it might be worth trying the leak off tubing bits from my old post below first. (cheaper option)

have a look at the wire coming off the injector for chafing or damage. The other two codes may be red herrings

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=62977

Pete

[neonovice]

Many thanks, I will give that a go.

[neonovice]

Looks like it is the injector pump that has gone.

New engine it is then.

[pete3000]

really? thats a b*gger. You could scrounge a pump from a bmw or vauxhaul omega from a scrappy. Just keep the electronics from yours and swap onto the new mechanincs ( the becm is coded to the pump). M51 engine is in many diesel bmws.

Just out of interest how did you arrive at the the injection pump?

Pete

[pete3000]

this post may be of interest, re swapping pumps and types

http://www.landyzone...lem-113500.html

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f10/replacement-diesel-engine-p38-161117.html

[Ally V8]

Can you please confirm that fuel IS being delivered to the injectors ?

Couple of things;

Pumps are NOT coded to the engine ecu or BECM.

The starter will still crank if the EDC code is lost or scrambled.

The needle lift sensor fault will not stop the engine from starting if it is indeed faulty.

[dave88sw]

Had a similar problem a while back, the engine would crank, i could prove i had fuel to the FIP but not at the injectors, i was about to go and replace the FIP but thought id get a second opinion, he suggested the becm had lost the code that links it to the engine ecu, got a guy to come and check with testbook and he was right, reset the code and it started straight away.

PS glowplugs dont come on when hot on this engine, its a known fault that they dont like starting when hot because of this, search ebay for "p38 hot start kit" and you'll find a kit to fool them into coming on.

[pete3000]

specific version available

https://blackbox-sol...com/shop/#BSM02

£94

[neonovice]

Can you please confirm that fuel IS being delivered to the injectors ?

Couple of things;

Pumps are NOT coded to the engine ecu or BECM.

The starter will still crank if the EDC code is lost or scrambled.

The needle lift sensor fault will not stop the engine from starting if it is indeed faulty.

Sorry I put in the initial post that there was fuel at the injectors, there is't, there is fuel at the injector pump though.

Had a similar problem a while back, the engine would crank, i could prove i had fuel to the FIP but not at the injectors, i was about to go and replace the FIP but thought id get a second opinion, he suggested the becm had lost the code that links it to the engine ecu, got a guy to come and check with testbook and he was right, reset the code and it started straight away.

Do you know if I can do that with Hawkeye pro or do I need someone with the testbook?

[chrisbowler]

You CAN do it with Autologic!!!

Chris Bowler

[dave88sw]

dont know about hawkeye, we use macscan, but that wouldnt do it, as said though autologic will do it

[pete3000]

you can resync the becm with the link for the basic bbs box i gave you above basic bits/bsm02 (becm sync mate diesel)

If you don't want to wait for shipping from cyprus http://www.ebay.co.u...=item56381bf985

[neonovice]

I sent an email to Bearmach tech support asking whether it is possible to re-sync using Hawkeye Pro.

Here is the reply:

Hope this helps

EDC Diesel Control Module (Range Rover (P38A)

Read Security Code

This function is to be used when a new BeCM has been installed (see BeCM section for

details). The security code displayed must be recorded, and entered into the new BeCM

unit as the ‘Immob Code’ parameter.

This must be done BEFORE the BeCM is locked.

WARNING: Once locked a BeCM cannot be unlocked using the scan tool.

The engine will not start until both codes in the BeCM and EDC module match.

This function is only applicable to Range Rover (P38A) vehicles.

BECM - Body Control Module (Range Rover - P38A)

The following special functions are available for BeCM on the scan tool:

Programming

There are several configurable parameters on the BeCM. The scan tool can be used to

alter these parameters.

Most parameters are functional, such as ‘Foglamps Fitted’, ‘Sunroof Fitted’. Other

parameters relate to the vehicle configuration, such as engine type, gearbox type.

Some parameters also relate to security, and hence can only be altered on a new or

‘unlocked’ BeCM module.

The lock state of the module can be viewed under the Programming - Security selection,

but this parameter can only be changed from ‘Unlocked’ to ‘Locked’. This should be

used when a new module has been installed and all parameters listed below have been

entered correctly.

WARNING: Once locked a BeCM cannot be unlocked using the scan tool.

Parameters only available under the ‘unlocked’ state are:

• VIN (last 6 digits).

• Immobiliser Code. For EDC and Motronic engine management systems, this must be

entered into a new BeCM in order for the engine start synchronisation to work. For

EDC systems the code must be read from the EDC system using the scan tool and

entered here. For the GEMS system any code can be entered here (0 - 65535), but

after entry the ‘Learn Security’ option must be selected from the GEMS module on

the scan tool.

• EKA Code. The Emergency Key Access number for the vehicle. Must be a 4 digit

number, each digit must be 1 - 6, all digits cannot be the same (e.g. 2222).

• Fob Code. This is a three-part Fob code which is created from the 14-digit barcode

number found on the lockset and key fob. If a lockset is replaced a new Fob code

must be entered. This code can be obtained from Land Rover dealers, by supplying

them with the 14-digit barcode number.

• ECU Lock Status: As mentioned previously this can only be changed from ‘unlocked’

to ‘locked’. This should only be done when the correct VIN, Immob Code, EKA and

Fob Code have been entered.

Note: An unlocked BeCM module will still function correctly when fitted to a vehicle. The

only side-effect of this is that diagnostics with certain other modules (HeVAC) may be

impaired.

WARNING: Once locked a BeCM cannot be unlocked using the scan tool.

Actuators

There are a number of Actuators available on the scan tool for BeCM. Any output

controlled by the BeCM can be tested using the scan tool (Warning lamps, electric

windows, lights, gauges, wipers). This function can be extremely useful when tracking

down electrical faults.

NA EMR Lamp Reset

This function is included in the Actuators menu, although it is more of a reset than an

actuator.

The NA EMR Lamp is a warning lamp on the dashboard of the P38A, and is only fitted

to vehicles sold in North America (US and Canada), and hence is not applicable to the

European market.

The EMR lamp will illuminate every 50,000 miles (or 80,000 km) to indicate that an

emissions check is required.

The lamp can only be reset using this function on the scan tool.

[neonovice]

I am none the wiser really.

[chrisbowler]

When using AUTOLOGIC, you can see a selection of details that are stored in the BECM. Engine size, mileage, date of build etc etc. included in these details is MOTRONIC Code and EDC code. It should give you an option to edit these details. If you know the EDC code you need to compare it with the stored value in the BeCM. EDC codes are usually 4 or5 digit numbers. Eg 1343 or 23353

I would expect the hawk eye to have some sort of scroll down menu that allows these details to be changed.

Chris bowler

[pete3000]

From neonovices post i read it as the hawkeye will only program or change an unlocked becm. i.e a new unprogrammed or third party unlocked becm, as it leaves the factory or dealer it should be locked. So even if the values can be read it won't change anything to do with edc or resync.

The bbs syncmate kit is the cheaper option than buying a new becm and lockset keys etc if the becm is locked. unless someone near you has a nanocom or similar they can pop round with.

[rampant range]

check the sensors they can throw up all sorts of problems

[neonovice]

When using AUTOLOGIC, you can see a selection of details that are stored in the BECM. Engine size, mileage, date of build etc etc. included in these details is MOTRONIC Code and EDC code. It should give you an option to edit these details. If you know the EDC code you need to compare it with the stored value in the BeCM. EDC codes are usually 4 or5 digit numbers. Eg 1343 or 23353

I would expect the hawk eye to have some sort of scroll down menu that allows these details to be changed.

Chris bowler

Having played around with it for a while here is what I've concluded:

1) The BeCM motronic code is 1536

2) The EMS security code is 1765

3) You can't change either of these codes with the Hawkeye pro.

Is it the EMS and the BeCM motronic codes that need to be the same? If so how would you go about unlocking the BeCM?

[neonovice]

UPDATE!!

Changed the engine for a younger less mileage one, changed the BeCM also from the same donor vehicle. Engine fires no problem!!

The only issue I have now is that the electric windows don't work ??? I can work them with the Hawkeye pro so the motors etc are working it appears to be switch related. As always any ideas welcome!