Scooby Jim Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Following on from here -> http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=80988&page=4This is what I have found after removing the rear diff from the casing, does this look like a series diff or something different?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Yeah thats broke! Did you loose the cap bolts off? I can't identify if its a 'series' diff from that photo. Turn the pinion and see how many times it goes round for 1 of the crown wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 I Can Yes thats an Imperial Diff, (BIG bolt heads on the carrier) so its highly likley to be a 4.7 Series unit God I am so sad, and I DO need to get out more Wibble Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Erm "Mr Scobby" I THINK your somewhere near me ? I have a few 4.7s kicking about that are of next to no use to me ok their not great condition, but not hanging either For a forum Donation of £20, I can give you another unit, all the adverts disappear, AND you get a diff Let me know, I'm Haslemere West Sussex / Surrey Borders Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Jim Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 4 and 3/4 turns to one of the crown wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Jim Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 I Can Yes thats an Imperial Diff, (BIG bolt heads on the carrier) so its highly likley to be a 4.7 Series unit God I am so sad, and I DO need to get out more Wibble Nige Erm "Mr Scobby"I THINK your somewhere near me ? I have a few 4.7s kicking about that are of next to no use to me ok their not great condition, but not hanging either For a forum Donation of £20, I can give you another unit, all the adverts disappear, AND you get a diff Let me know, I'm Haslemere West Sussex / Surrey Borders Nige I'm based in Swansea South Wales, and thanks for the offer but I'm in the process of sorting some Disco diffs, for the old girl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 3.54 ? vs 4.7 ? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 4 and 3/4 turns to one of the crown wheel. = 4.7:1 Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Jim Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 Some other pics, and one of the stamping on the back of the crown wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 I Can Yes thats an Imperial Diff, (BIG bolt heads on the carrier) so its highly likley to be a 4.7 Series unit God I am so sad, and I DO need to get out more Wibble Nige Spotter!! = 4.7:1 Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Jim Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 3.54 ? vs 4.7 ? Nige = 4.7:1Nige Well thats that then!! lol. BUT it does look like it was reconditioned, and then the planetary gears, came loose and Robert's your mothers brother it jammed up. Put it this way, its in better condition than my Impreza diff I have as a spare, and that is only 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 It has certainly been messed with as the tufnol washer with the oil holes in it(l/h side of pic 1) is a sun wheel shim/thrust washer for an early diff of the S1, 2 & early 2a flavour which had a bolt on pinion oil seal retainer, Once the oil seal retainer was made integral with the case there were no shim washers used on the sun wheels. Also the crownwheel bolts are 3/8" BSF rather than the later 3/8"UNF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off Road Toad Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 That crown wheel and pinion are not standard LR 4.7- they are early KAM gears, the crown wheel is far too thick for standard and the colour is very recognisable too :-) Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Jim Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 It has certainly been messed with as the tufnol washer with the oil holes in it(l/h side of pic 1) is a sun wheel shim/thrust washer for an early diff of the S1, 2 & early 2a flavour which had a bolt on pinion oil seal retainer, Once the oil seal retainer was made integral with the case there were no shim washers used on the sun wheels. Also the crownwheel bolts are 3/8" BSF rather than the later 3/8"UNF. God knows, I know nothing as to the history of this vehicle so at the moment nothing surprises me. That crown wheel and pinion are not standard LR 4.7- they are early KAM gears, the crown wheel is far too thick for standard and the colour is very recognisable too :-) Steve Well they knackered KAM gears now, what was/is special about the KAM gears?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off Road Toad Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 They're much harder to break unless you get bits in them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Jim Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 They're much harder to break unless you get bits in them! Well looks like mine failed as the planetary gears came apart, and jammed in. This is a better pic of the damage, worth keeping or scrap?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off Road Toad Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Definately scrap im afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 worth keeping or scrap?? Tongue in cheek, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 That crown wheel and pinion are not standard LR 4.7- they are early KAM gears, the crown wheel is far too thick for standard and the colour is very recognisable too :-) Steve Not that it matters any more in this instance,but If the crownwheel was thicker, wouldn't that mean that it would then have to be fitted to a 3.54:1 crownwheel carrier? Otherwise there might not be sufficient space to adjust backlash? And Phil Hancock. Wouldn't all series 4.7:1 ratio diffs have been messed with by now? They were considered 'consumables' back then, just like petrol,oil, fan belts, radiator hoses and tyres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 The diff in my 109 hadn't been messed with other than a new pinion seal, and I don't think our Lightweight diffs had been fiddled with either. It's a good point about the diff carrier perhaps being a 3.54 unit to accommodate the KAM gear and shim. If that is the case, and it has a filler plug on the carrier, than that will solve Jim's problem with oil levels on his 3.54 swap (other thread) - he could swap the 3.54 internals from one of the new diffs to this carrier, giving him the new diff ratio he wants and a filler plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Jim Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 Definately scrap im afraid. Thought so. Tongue in cheek, right? Yeah. Not that it matters any more in this instance,but If the crownwheel was thicker, wouldn't that mean that it would then have to be fitted to a 3.54:1 crownwheel carrier? Otherwise there might not be sufficient space to adjust backlash?And Phil Hancock. Wouldn't all series 4.7:1 ratio diffs have been messed with by now? They were considered 'consumables' back then, just like petrol,oil, fan belts, radiator hoses and tyres. The diff in my 109 hadn't been messed with other than a new pinion seal, and I don't think our Lightweight diffs had been fiddled with either.It's a good point about the diff carrier perhaps being a 3.54 unit to accommodate the KAM gear and shim. If that is the case, and it has a filler plug on the carrier, than that will solve Jim's problem with oil levels on his 3.54 swap (other thread) - he could swap the 3.54 internals from one of the new diffs to this carrier, giving him the new diff ratio he wants and a filler plug. Thats exactly how the penny dropped in my head too, but will compare like for like when I get the 3.54 diffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off Road Toad Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 No, the earlier KAM gears were designed to fit in to series casings and on series carriers and had to use a 3.9mm spacer when fitted to metric 3.54 carriers. The tooth cough should be 10 on the pinion and 47 on the Ring gear which gives you 4.75:1 ratio - close enough to get away with when combined with a 4.7:1 ratio in the opposing axle without causing wind-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off Road Toad Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Sorry that should say tooth count not cough, chuffing iPhone. Also to add that is definitely an imperial casing you have there. Whether the carrier is 3.54 or 4.7 should become obvious when you unbolt it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Jim Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 Sorry that should say tooth count not cough, chuffing iPhone. Also to add that is definitely an imperial casing you have there. Whether the carrier is 3.54 or 4.7 should become obvious when you unbolt it all. Cheers for the reply, IF they went to the expense of a KAM diff would they have uprated to KAMs halfshafts too?? Is there any way to check?? As they do look different metal to the standard front shafts I have. Sorry for appearing thick, but its my first ever Land Rover so I have no benchmark as to what's right or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off Road Toad Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 It looks like just the crown wheel is KAM. The Sun gears are 10 spline and KAM never made HD 10 spline shafts, only a 24 spline series conversion. That and its still a 2 pin carrier. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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