Lewis Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 There are A frames with bushing instead of ball, for axle end. This ones could be used for fabricatring a looooooooooooong and beef wishbone. Yes they are used on Renault and Iveco trucks, and probably others, the axle end bushing is no larger than the two at the chassis end, and in some cases they are smaller overall than the one I pictured earlier in the thread. However even these smaller bushes would be more than adequate in a 4x4 application. The angle of the a frames on trucks does not lend itselft well be used directly on a 4x4 - either it would end up very short or would cause packaging issues at the axle end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Bill, was your 1Link arranged like this zuki one? No O'teunico, that orientation would not do for me, because even Simon-X Engineering's A frame ball joints have a swivel limit of 22 degrees from neutral. With some fettling I get 28 degrees,but my present suspension, and that of my 6x6 articulates to a tad over 30 degrees. As I mentioned earlier, I mount the central A frame ball joint or bushing, so that the ballpin or bushing thrubolt aims for/aft, just as it does on the chassis end of standard radius or trailing arms. I don't understand the confusion ! Maybe I'm losing my ability to explain stuff ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted November 1, 2013 Author Share Posted November 1, 2013 Or maybe I dont have the ability to undrtstand! ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Or maybe I dont have the ability to undrtstand! ;-) No, I don't thinks so, because even Lewis didn't get it. That photo may have been taken while the Suzi was still being constructed, but I can't see how the flat plate the ball joint is bolted to wouldn't buckle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Lewis, I think I now realise why you are having trouble comprehending how I mounted the bushing. Forget the truck trailing arm, the forging that the bushing presses into, and the centre pin. It is only the bushing itself that I use. I bored out a piece of heavy wall pipe to press the bushing into, and fabricated the wishbone around that ! Easily done. Now visualise a larger version of a leaf spring hanger for the bushing to ride in, and that hanger welded to the front vertical face of a rectangular crossmember, with the bushing centre pin perpendicular to it. Easy again,no pain. I removed the original centre pin from the bushing and replaced it with a 1'' dia bolt and misalignment spacer washers. I understood it from this Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Your last description is pretty clear Bill I'd put it into a drawing if I could think of how to put it into a drawing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Likewise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Your last description is pretty clear Bill I'd put it into a drawing if I could think of how to put it into a drawing... Thanks, me too. The last time someone showed me how to draw on the computer, I couldn't draw a straight line, square or constant curve for the life of me . When it comes to anything more complicated than basic typing and posting, I really need the guidance of a 5 year old for this internet stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Only way I could think of visualising it clearly was with 3D modelling, so here's a VERY crude Solidworks model of how I understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Only way I could think of visualising it clearly was with 3D modelling, so here's a VERY crude Solidworks model of how I understand it. bill one link.JPG Perfect ! thankyou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 What are peoples thoughts on a radius arm chassis end bush as the 1link joint? http://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/land-rover-discovery/discovery-1/parts/suspension/rear-suspension/ntc9027-bush-front-of-rear-radius-arm-90110-1990-my-onand-range-rover-classic-discovery-1992-my-onwards-.html Its M20 I beleave and an 8.8 M20 has a shear strength of about 140 KN, is that enough? I'm no where near smart enough to work out how much force could be transferred to the joint! This would be the configuration.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Even on my present 3 link, with coil springs mounted behind the axle the for aft thrust loads were too high for standard radius arm bushings, and ARB eurathane ones squashed permanently flat after only a couple of days. I think expecting a single radius arm bushing to do the job previously performed by 2 is asking a bit much, but a rear trailing arm chassis bushing could be up to the job. PS, Craddoxs misname the bushing you linked to as a 'rear radius arm bushing'. this is what is more commonly referred to as a ' trailing arm bushing'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Even on my present 3 link, with coil springs mounted behind the axle the for aft thrust loads were too high for standard radius arm bushings, and ARB eurathane ones squashed permanently flat after only a couple of days. I think expecting a single radius arm bushing to do the job previously performed by 2 is asking a bit much, but a rear trailing arm chassis bushing could be up to the job. hmm ok so the rubber is the weak point. I've thought about getting a bush made (say double the size) but I could Imagen that tooling costs would be to much to warrant it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 hmm ok so the rubber is the weak point. I've thought about getting a bush made (say double the size) but I could Imagen that tooling costs would be to much to warrant it. Read my post script on previous post. Can't find it right now but on one of these recent one link type threads, I posted some rough figures on the bolt loadings for both shear and thrust. I'm no engineer but I think they would be close to the mark, and the rubber in the bushing should absorb any load spikes due to acceleration/braking forces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted November 2, 2013 Author Share Posted November 2, 2013 Bill, sorry, but I still dont know how can this setup work. What is preventing the bush from moving inside the "pipe" were it is insrted? Will a setup made with two lorry bushes, replicating exactly the two doughnut bushing system of LR radius arms, work as good as yor system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Bill, sorry, but I still dont know how can this setup work. What is preventing the bush from moving inside the "pipe" were it is insrted? Will a setup made with two lorry bushes, replicating exactly the two doughnut bushing system of LR radius arms, work as good as yor system? Well O'teunico, there is nothing preventing the inner tube of the bushing from flexing back and forth relative to the bushings outer shell. But it's a large strong bushing from a heavy truck, and the for/aft movement is less than that of radius arm bushings, either the axle ones or chassis ones. My misalignment spacer washers are 10mm thick and never once did the outer shell of the bushing make contact with its mounting hanger on the old 6x6,even with the axle fully drooped, a situation that would only occur if the front wheels were airborne or the vehicle was high centred on its belly on a log or hummock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted November 4, 2013 Author Share Posted November 4, 2013 Why was WildFing given a 3Link when such a good (and proven) 1Link was readily available? After experiencing both, wich of them is better in your opinión? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Why was WildFing given a 3Link when such a good (and proven) 1Link was readily available? After experiencing both, wich of them is better in your opinión? I think I might have partly answered your question before on another thread. But anyway, doing a proper One Link on a series vehicle isn't all that straight forward. For one thing the number 2 crossmember is too far forward and welded solid to the chassis. All the changes and modifications, including portal axles to WildFing were done while it was my only vehicle and a daily driver,so I never took it out of service for more than 24 hours at a time. Since I had already done the radius arm conversion,(another quick clamp on affair) it was quicker, easier and probably just as effective to convert to 3 link than to cut out the crossmember, repair any possible rust in the chassis rails that the crossmember was hiding, and then build a new stronger crossmember for the One Link wishbone, and set it further back in the chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted November 5, 2013 Author Share Posted November 5, 2013 And WildFing´s rear 1Link? Does it use the same design as the front of the 6x6? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 And WildFing´s rear 1Link? Does it use the same design as the front of the 6x6? No , the rear One Link is actually 3 links in one, ie, a tripod with one central straight link from A frame ball joint mounting at centre top of the axle, running forward to the pivot bushing on a heavier version of a series t/case crossmember. Another link each on side bolts to the original R/Rover trailing arm mounting brackets at the axle . These links run forward to bolt on to the central straight link. Due to lack of space because of the handbrake drum I didn't use the large bushing as on the front, but used an 80 series LandCruiser radius arm bushing instead and in its normal orientation. Due to Dans (DirtyDiesel) positive experience with them on a One link, I will be replacing the Toyota bushing with an A frame ball joint if I decide to go ahead and offset it to the r/h/side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Could I get people opinions on using this joint for the main 1 link joint, seems to be the biggest joint I can find out there and it has bushing as it has a poly insert. http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/30-Forged-Ultra-Duty-Ballistic-Joint_p_1626.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Looks like good value, what will it cost shipped to you in GDP? Also what's the warranty like when you're transatlantic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Well due to wanting it soon ill get it shipped. Doubt it will cost that much. But failing that, my dads mrs has family over in the US so my dad goes over a couple times a year. So I cant get it returned if need be. The question is will it be up to the task?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Dunno, do a search on the forum, I'm sure dirtydiesel used one on his g wagon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Could I get people opinions on using this joint for the main 1 link joint, seems to be the biggest joint I can find out there and it has bushing as it has a poly insert. http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/30-Forged-Ultra-Duty-Ballistic-Joint_p_1626.html I use ballistic's 3.0 joint on the chassis end of the jimny's one links,http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/30-Ultra-Duty-BALLISTIC-Joint_p_1507.html I think too much focus is on the bush used rather than the joints attachment to the link, and the links attachment to the axle. I really don't see how the style of joint you have linked to can be robustly intergrated into a link, remember the 1 link is likely to be the the lowest point of the car so that 1.25" stub will have to take the entire weight of the car at times Dunno, do a search on the forum, I'm sure dirtydiesel used one on his g wagon I used 2 of the 3.0's on the chassis ends of the front upper links they survived very well, but they did require adjustment a couple of times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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