Simon B Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Bit of a random one, my Isuzu 2.8 has seized up catastrophically (think the camshaft went) has anyone fitted a frontera motor (the same I thnk with a few differences on induction) to an Lt85 (Santana) gearbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 The 2.8 in the frontera is pretty much identical to the one out of an isuzu, it think the only diffences are the inlet manifold, heater pipework and the oil filter housing. Well done on siezing your old one, i wonder if driving it for all that time with the timing out killed it? when you come to replace it, can i have first refusal on the dead one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 If I've done my research correctly, these only have 80 bhp. Why would you not choose to fit a bit more lively engine now the old one is dead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon B Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 The timing was correct, there had been no damage from the time when it was slightly out before as the head was taken off to investigate it over heating, that was due to a partially failed thermostat. It had been running really well up to the point that it seized and that happened very quickly without much warning. Enough oil, no oil light on, small amount of smoke from crankcase breather temperature gauge normal, slight tappet sound that sounded like #2 or #3 then middle of engine but only when it was fully warmed up. Timing belt in very good condition. I'll fit the Frontera lump then we can talk, you see an awful lot minus; turbo, alternator and starter motor - presumably eBayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon B Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 Just rechecked my old post, fairly sure the seizure was not my fault as the error I made in fitting the timing belt affected the pum (ignition) timing rather than the crank/valve timing. Old Hand; "CASH" - still got the Isuzu conversion plate and all that silicone tubing. Plus the same will type of lump will almost fit itself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off Road Toad Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 If I've done my research correctly, these only have 80 bhp. Why would you not choose to fit a bit more lively engine now the old one is dead? The Frontera version had 115 bhp, the non-turbo version had 87bhp. my old 2.3 bedford engined Frontera was intercooled and turbocharged, that had 90bhp as standard so i cant think they'd have gone down in power with the later 2.8. They only sold it with the 2.8 for a very short run as they (vauxhall) claimed it was too expensive an engine to use (hence them going back to their car derived 2.2 engines) Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 If I've done my research correctly, these only have 80 bhp. Why would you not choose to fit a bit more lively engine now the old one is dead? The only problem with judging engines on paper like these chris, is that all the manufacturers measure power differently. I'd go as far as to say that land rovers claims for tdi's are grossly exaggerated. As an example at work we have a 1998 2.4td hilux for towing duties on paper it makes 80hp ish, in 2004 we bought a 130hp L200 to replace it. Our driver did one recovery and was so disappointed he put the trailer back on the hilux, we had the L200 chipped out to 160hp and it still wouldn't tow as well as the hilux. The same it true of the 2.8 Isuzu on paper it looks to be totally out classed by a 200/300tdi, but when you drive the 2, the Isuzu in stock form feels just as powerful. Then throw some fuel and air at the Isuzu and it's superior cross flow head and extra cubes leave the tdi into the weeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon B Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 I found that, it pulled well, I expected much less, a very reasonable compromise with the V8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I have used both engines, and can confirm that the Frontera 2.8 is more powerful than the standard Isuzu lump and a Defender TDi by a good margin. Main differences between Isuzu and Frontera lump are the vacuum controlled EGR kit on the Frontera - can all be pulled of and dumped, the oil filter/cooler housing on the frontera sits further back, I swapped the frontera one for the Isuzu one to clear bulkhead better. Inlet manifold is different design - again I retained the Isuzu one as it looks like it flows much better than the frontera one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 I fondly remember being able to go around roundabouts in 4th gear in my 2.8 Frontera :-) Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Def V8 90 Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Y not put a v8 in??! U got the gearbox for it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon B Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 It had one! but I didnt have the pockets for the fuel! It was a close call between LPG convert or transplant a diesel. The diesel won just, I'd run a 4.6 on LPG before this defender and like it. Before its catastrophic seizure I loved the Isuzu too, both motors are great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon B Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 I have used both engines, and can confirm that the Frontera 2.8 is more powerful than the standard Isuzu lump and a Defender TDi by a good margin. Main differences between Isuzu and Frontera lump are the vacuum controlled EGR kit on the Frontera - can all be pulled of and dumped, the oil filter/cooler housing on the frontera sits further back, I swapped the frontera one for the Isuzu one to clear bulkhead better. Inlet manifold is different design - again I retained the Isuzu one as it looks like it flows much better than the frontera one. Certainly seems that way! I'll post the pics when I get them out of the iPhone. Bit more fiddly than I thought; Oil filter housing retained from Isuzu Oil supply pipes also swapped over Water supply to oil filter heat sink - mackled up Isuzu dowel bolt would not fit, forgot to fit it before engine went back in EGR kit all removed and blanked Frontera diesel pump has an immobiliser module fitted old Isuzu one other in shed for now Injectors and pipe work different Turbo outlet different retained Isuzu one after snapping all 4 studs DOH! Dual mass flywheel removed, old isuzu one fitted back Doesnt start as easily, bit clattery till warm but more powerful, turbo makes a strange sound when I turn it off too? Also got my old alternator fault back, something has gone pop again so might wire it up as per Isuzu circuit diagram through a relay to the charge light. Not even sure how it happened again this time as all I did was disconnect the positive first then when it was re-connected - no charge light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 The differences between the normal isuzu and more powerful frontera engine are bigger turbo, two stage injectors, and an intercooler. I think the pump may differ slightly due to the altered needs as well. Have you connected up the cold start device on the pump? This is next to the wire for the fuel solenoid and should either be on a timer relay or manual switch. When Activated it advances the timing a bit to make cold starts easier, but makes engine clatter. Are you sure the frontera pump has an imobiliser on it? The turbo whine after shutdown is normal, I always used to let engine idle a bit before turning off to help slow it down a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon B Posted May 1, 2013 Author Share Posted May 1, 2013 It has a black plastic box on the back held on with shear bolts, I had heard it is simply a protected solenoid that only opens when it gets the right signals from the immobiliser circuit. I did wonder about drilling out the shear bolts and removing the solenoid/wiring it in to the stop solenoid. Not wired in the cold start advance yet as I have not wired in the glow plugs, sounds like this is a good idea, I did buy a land rover glow plug timer but havent got around to fitting it yet. The alternator fault needs sorting out first; no charge light, but covered in another thread; Alternator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon B Posted May 14, 2013 Author Share Posted May 14, 2013 Consulted my local diesel gurus, the Frontera pump does have an imobiliser on it, however, underneath the black plastic cover is simply a 12v solenoid. Their advice "smash the plastic cover off and put 12v to it" Next job will be to refit this once the smashing is done.There are some other devices on missing from the diesel kiki pump not sure what they are but I'll read up on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 arent the later 300tdi pumps similar with the immo thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 yep similar thing on the tdi pump, black metal & plastic housing with a little circuit board inside surrounding the normal solenoid. This is the 'stop' solenoid, once you've smashed the casing off, just put an ignition 12v to it. The other solenoid (on Isuzu) is the cold start device which advance the ignition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon B Posted May 14, 2013 Author Share Posted May 14, 2013 I smashed it and took some pics. It would have been possible with some cunning soldering to merely prize off the end and solder 12v wire onto a pin. However, with it all gone I wired up the solenoid, interestingly the solenoid was only finger tight. Next issue to sort is all the other stuff with wires on the pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon B Posted May 16, 2013 Author Share Posted May 16, 2013 Here's the pump with the now removed imobiliser module. What I'm unsure of is the other things; Module marked 456 AJ1 - what is it, do I need to connect it to anything The little whit vaccuum doofer, looks like it pulls on some throttle do I need to connect that? Finally at the back of the pump there looks like a thermal switch again what is it and does that need connecting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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