The "pass the bucket" crazy/dumb/idiot ideas/LR creations

[o_teunico]

A real bodylift

[o_teunico]

Just another self-made vapour build: Discovery with 12" suspension lift and winched rear axle.

[o_teunico]

OK, I know this is a Land Rover forum, but as some members have had experiences with other makes...can anyone help me with Mitsubishi gearboxes?

The idea is to match a Mitsu gbox+transfer to the Tdi (maybe using Mitsu´s flywheel housing, starter motor, flywheel and clutch assembly) and use Mitsu´s low box as a "doubler" for a divorced LT230.

As far as I know the 2.5 diesel non super select box has been used in early Shoguns, Hyundai Gallopers and L200s. There seem to be two types: steel + alloy and full alloy with integral bellhousing. Main differences? Are these boxes reliable and strong? Ratios? How is the rear UJ attached to the box´s output? Length? LT77+LT230 is 900mm from bellhousing to brake drum.

I have choosen this box for my (vapour) build because they are cheap (200-250 Eur), easy to obtain and have a front drive output at the left, thus not interfering with LT230´s right offset. Mitsu´s front wheel output could be used for a VikingWinch style thing, if I were able to control Hi-Low and 4x2-4x4 separately.

EDIT: posted this at a spanish Mitsubishi forum, but after more than 100 reads nobody had the answers...

[simonr]

Bill, Speak to Nige(HFH) or Steve (Offroad toad) and they should be able to explain as they've both worked there at the same time a while ago

John

I blame that Nigel - and Steve - and Chris for that matter! They FORCED Kevin to make it!

That said, KAM have (and will) produce some really nice bits of Engineering - some of which are their fault too!

Si

[o_teunico]

Engineering company has said NO to the "VikingWinch". Any winch can be approved as long as it has CE certificate , and a home made one will certainly not

[bill van snorkle]

OK, I know this is a Land Rover forum, but as some members have had experiences with other makes...can anyone help me with Mitsubishi gearboxes?

The idea is to match a Mitsu gbox+transfer to the Tdi (maybe using Mitsu´s flywheel housing, starter motor, flywheel and clutch assembly) and use Mitsu´s low box as a "doubler" for a divorced LT230.

As far as I know the 2.5 diesel non super select box has been used in early Shoguns, Hyundai Gallopers and L200s. There seem to be two types: steel + alloy and full alloy with integral bellhousing. Main differences? Are these boxes reliable and strong? Ratios? How is the rear UJ attached to the box´s output? Length? LT77+LT230 is 900mm from bellhousing to brake drum.

I have choosen this box for my (vapour) build because they are cheap (200-250 Eur), easy to obtain and have a front drive output at the left, thus not interfering with LT230´s right offset. Mitsu´s front wheel output could be used for a VikingWinch style thing, if I were able to control Hi-Low and 4x2-4x4 separately.

EDIT: posted this at a spanish Mitsubishi forum, but after more than 100 reads nobody had the answers...

Vapor builds are easy with your photochopping skills. So get rid of the Mitsu chain drive transfercase. It is only there for front wheel drive. Retain the Hi/Low reduction box just in front of it and bolt the LT230 up to that.

[Jamie_grieve]

Engineering company has said NO to the "VikingWinch". Any winch can be approved as long as it has CE certificate , and a home made one will certainly not

Why would the winch have to be approved? If it wasn't being used for hire or reward you can carry as much scrap iron as you want on your truck and if it happens to be bolted down to stop it falling off and as your preferred method of carrying it I don't see how they could say much unless it had projections not compatible with pedestrian safety?

Have you got any links to any good photoshop tutorials? I got a copy of Photoshop CS4 now and a thing called adobe bridge and I cant make any sense of anything at all. The whole thing's a complete mystery to me but I quite fancy a bit of vapour building while my back heals up. I use a Mac if it makes a difference.

I've got a bunch of ideas and drawings on paper but I think being able to show them to others would be fun and Photoshop seems to be the way forward. Even changing the colour of something would be cool.

[o_teunico]

get rid of the Mitsu chain drive transfercase. It is only there for front wheel drive. Retain the Hi/Low reduction box just in front of it and bolt the LT230 up to that.

Now that the "VikingWinch" has been banned by local regulations, that makes sense. I understand that some cutting/machining will be needed.

Have you got any links to any good photoshop tutorials? I got a copy of Photoshop CS4

I use both Microsoft Paint and Photoshop CS6 (Demo version). I simply start clicking all buttons to discover what they do. There are some photoshopped pictures that is really difficult to tell if they are real or not. That´s not my case. I just want to see in picture my ideas, even if it´s clear that it´s a photoshopped picture.

Have a look at https://www.facebook.com/pages/Photoshop-I-love-you/291465070877182

[o_teunico]

Some more

About winches...spanish MoT´s vehicle moddification´s manual clearly says that the installation of a winch of any type is considered as a major moddification that must be approved.

Previous ruling said that only winches used for recovery (or self recovery) needed approval. of course that everybody said that their winch was used only for pulling trees or rocks out of the trail, but never for recovery or self recovery

[FridgeFreezer]

Oh dear god, are we on to a thread about photoshopped kittens? Try www.b3ta.com, they're a nice bunch and have an FAQ.

[o_teunico]

If I were able to join in some way the Mitsubishi "Easy Select" transfer box´s shaft to the one used in ZF4HP22+LT230 arrangement, then it will be a child´s play to make an adapltator plate for bolting an LT230 to the HI/LO casing.

Fork´s retaining shafts will need cutting, but some kind of gear lever locking mechanism will be easy to fabricate. I once read about a malaysian Series at the Rainforest Challenge that used a leather strap in the "red" lever for preventing the car jumping out of gear.

If the whole setup is made short enough, rear axle rotation+drop box could be avoided.

EDIT: Bill, have you experienced fretting corrosión (as in LT77/LT230 input gear). Has been the resplined shaft been heat treated? I´m amazed with your creations.

[Jamie_grieve]

Now that you've lost the ability to have a Viking winch, ( it is a vapour build so no restrictions need apply ) I'd suggest that you should now look for an alternative transmission. The Mitsi setup you have here is very long, using 4 cylinder Defender or Santana components and a Rakeway short rear housing you could get a Land Rover based tranny down to around 29 1/2" or 79ish cm. If you sliced a couple of LT230's down the middle and made some photo shop of the intermediate gears what kind of tranny could you build us then?

FTC5090 is the coupler you need from the auto to the LT230 which is probably the thing you'd modify putting something else on.

Edited to add:

This drawing from Rave of the LT 230 might come in handy for your scheming and photoshopping..?

[o_teunico]

This is the only way that I see for making a double LT230

Some extra chassis rails below original chassis will be welded for correct radius arm angles and +4" coils below chassis rails will provide the neede suspensión lift

[bill van snorkle]

EDIT: Bill, have you experienced fretting corrosión (as in LT77/LT230 input gear). Has been the resplined shaft been heat treated? I´m amazed with your creations.

I never fitted that splitter box Teunico, I am waiting until the truck requires a major overhaul sometime.All parts that were machined and resplined were annealed and reheat treated after modification. I decided that the splitter and main box would share a common oil supply,and there is sufficient clearance between the outside diameters of the gears and the splined coupling shaft to allow lubricant to flow through and minimise corrosion fretting.

[o_teunico]

If length and shaft diametre permit, the best way of fabricating a Mitsu-Rover 20 speed box will be internally resplining the LT230 input gear to match the mitsu splined shaft. Input gear, unlike separate mitsu components, is easy and cheap to obtain.

Mitsu gearbox looks long, but it´s bellhousing completly hides flywheel-clutch assembly. Engine flywheel housing is a simple flat plate, easy to adapt or fabricate to match the 200 Tdi. Mitsu flywheel, clutch and starter motor will be used.

EDIT: Discovery LT77+LT230, drum brake to bellhousing/flywheel housing joint is 94cm long. LT230, drum brake to main/transfer box joint is 30cm long.

[Jamie_grieve]

O´Téunico: I'm jealous of your computer skills, I'd have no idea where to even start manipulating pictures like that. I've given up on Photoshop before I even got started on it.

I cant really think of any realistic way to make a doubler out of LT230's either but did wonder with your skills of computer graphics if you would come up with something wonderful I hadn't thought of. Even getting a huge pile of them and just using the high and low speed gears I still can't really see a useful way forward. The configuration's wrong really. The LT230 is a good strong transfer case with the centre diff and better low gear reduction than any other off the shelf case I can think of but because the reduction isn't available in line with the main shaft it just doesn't lend itself. I don't know if any parts from the LT95 are compatible as it has high and low range at the PTO so a conventional doubler would be possible with it in front but without an overdrive gear possibility and only four speeds it wouldn't satisfy many peoples needs.

An epicyclic reduction as Bill did makes a huge amount of sense. Huge reduction, strong and compact.

The splitter box as above would be good on many trucks but I can't see the LT77 and variants as being strong enough to handle at least double the input torque as would be expected of a doubler as opposed to a splitter for a half gear for towing or whatever..

I think your Mitsi idea is completely viable but only question if the overall reduction ratio and the extra length could be more easily obtained using off the shelf parts?

[Jamie_grieve]

Have you any idea of the shaft diameter and spline count of that Mitsi rear output?

I'd guess that most DIY types could get a hold of a lathe easily enough but cutting internal splines is hard for most of us. Could you match that spline to a CV joint inner which could be turned and made to fit in the gear?

I notice that Mitsubishi shafts are often 25 spline which coincidentally is the same number as the splines in my portal diffs. I've been unable to find any diameters anywhere yet.

[o_teunico]

When I post a moddified picture and say that it has been "photoshopped", that´s not really true, because ALL (selfmade) pictures I have posted in this fórum have been made with Microsoft Paint. It´s extremly basic and easy to opérate. I really use nearly allways just "SELECT" "COPY-PASTE" "RESIZE" "TEXT" "COLOR" "ROTATE" and basic shapes (line, circle, square). Just seven "clicks" and job done! Maybe there is something similar from Apple.

I can't see the LT77 and variants as being strong enough to handle at least double the input torque as would be expected of a doubler

I don´t know how much torque an LT77 will handle, but the beefer R380 was named that way because it was "Rated to 380Nm" (that was a 4.6 V8´s max torque). 200Tdi´s 270Nm x2 = 540Nm = disaster for the gearbox!

I think your Mitsi idea is completely viable but only question if the overall reduction ratio and the extra length could be more easily obtained using off the shelf parts?

With a BIG wallet you can fit a bolt-on underdrive from Ashcroft.

Could you match that spline to a CV joint inner which could be turned and made to fit in the gear?

That could work and will make it more affordable as a DIY project. I have seen in the past series transfer gears welded with good results. There was a link at the forum and I even saved it to my computer, but have been unable to locate it. I was an extremly cute DIY high ratio Series transfercase thread.

Pressed and welded splines, from pirate4x4

Sorry, all Mitsu pictures are from the WWW and I have no access to the real thing for spline count or measure.

1st gear in Mitsu box is arround 4 to 1 and low box ratio 1.9 to one.

[o_teunico]

Internal splines will be sourced from rear propshaft´s slip yoke

[o_teunico]

Interesting page involving LT230, spline matter and welding

http://www.mez.co.uk/4l80e-1.html

[o_teunico]

Have you any idea of the shaft diameter and spline count of that Mitsi rear output?

Vehicle PART NUMBER SPLINE COUNT MAJOR SPLINE DIA.

C/L TO END "D"

GROUND HUB DIA. "F" Seal Dia. UJOINT

NOTES

Mitsubishi DTSPT-2603-26S 25/26 1.156 5.9 1.558 2651-60 $48.06

Taken from http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_catalog/drivetrain/slip_yokes_transmission.html#Mitsubishi

[o_teunico]

Today I have been playing with Microsoft Paint to see what color scheme could I use for the Disco. I have narrowed it to three options.

Red with White roof, as seen in Defenders

Galician forest patrol look-a-like

And my favourite one, UK Police look-a-like. Will look the part towing a Talgo train look-a-like caravan

[o_teunico]

I leave here the full-size white Disco to be used by other forum members as a base for their own creations. It´s a .jpg. I recommend you to save it as .bmp, as it will be easier to change colors. BMP was too big in size to be uploaded directly.

[heath robinson]

Have a look at this

[bill van snorkle]

Have a look at this

With due respect to the seller, I don't believe that is a genuine Sandringham, due to the lack of a thrudrive leading axle. The pillow block on the leading axle, with propshaft running to rearmost axle suggests drive from PTO, but unless an additional transfercase is fitted behind the standard one, then the rear axle will only receive gearbox mainshaft speeds, which do not match low or even high range ratios.

Jaime, my splitter box in front of the main box is actually an overdrive, so would not increase torque input.

A similar but reduction type box would best be fitted behind the LT77, so again would not oveload it.

IMO, the Mitsu chain drive section should be removed and form the basis for a 6x6 thrudrive type dropbox.The 2 speed reduction unit in front of it should be adapted to the front of the LT230. I would prefer a Hilux reduction box however because alternative low range ratios of over 4:1 are available aftermarket.