Things may just get worse

[studmuffin]

Dont want to be all doom and gloom but I had a heads up this morning from our companys scrap merchant to say that for various reasons there will be a significant drop in UK steel scrap prices for May.

Also they are seeing a very big reduction of " walk in " scrap sales (Pikie scrap sales) . This is almost certainly due to anyone selling scrap having to produce a photo licence/passport etc... and being paid by bank transfer or cheque.

Some of the small scrap merchants are still bending the rules but they have to sell to the big exporting merchants and HMRC and the police are crawling all over them, as well as the Revenue nailing people who have already had substantial payments into their bank.

On the face of it that should be good news for the rest of us, but for Pikies, the combination of restrictions on getting cash for scrap, lower prices for what they can sell and increased Government action on the ones that do have a fixed address mean that they have to boost their income somehow. That means nicking something that belongs to one of us!!

LOCK UP YOUR LANDROVERS, CARAVANS, GARDEN SHEDS AND ANYTHING ELSE AT RISK OF BEING SWIPED

Cheers

Barry

[Superpants]

Whilst it's interesting to hear of a change in scrap prices, i'm not sure that I follow the logic that this will increase thefts......

If it's more difficult to sell scrap metal, and the price drops, surely that's a disincentive to theft?

It's also just pure speculation about one section of our community which I find somewhat disappointing.

[ian_s]

i think what he means is as the scrap price drops, the thieving type will start to steal stuff that can be sold on easily, and not bother with the scrap metal.

[Superpants]

I'm afraid I don't agree with that logic; I don't see a direct link. If something is easy to steal, easy to pass on and get a good price for, then that is independent of what price scrap is fetching.

Secondly- it's the higher value metals such as copper and lead that tend to drive thefts, so I find it unlikely a small percentage change in scrap steel prices will affect those thefts.

[Aragorn]

TBH, theres many "pikeys" round this way (and i use the term loosely in this context, given its implied negativity), and i havent seen any real reduction in activity. The scrap dealer has always been busy enough (and have just invested in a lot of money in a new computer system to log/process each transaction) when i've been there, and theres a regular enough flow of flat bed vans equipped with "greedy sides" that drive past my house.

As with anything, theres honest folk and dishonest folk. I've had a few "pikeys" knock my door and ask for scrap that i've had sitting around, i've always declined as i weigh my own scrap in, and i've never had any trouble with them returning in the night to steal the stuff. I guess those ones at least are honest enough, as if they werent they wouldnt have asked and the stuff would just have vanished.

The honest ones wont have an issue with the new legislation, as they're not doing anything illegal and will happily register with the scrap yard etc.

[studmuffin]

I'm afraid I don't agree with that logic; I don't see a direct link. If something is easy to steal, easy to pass on and get a good price for, then that is independent of what price scrap is fetching.

Secondly- it's the higher value metals such as copper and lead that tend to drive thefts, so I find it unlikely a small percentage change in scrap steel prices will affect those thefts.

Sorry but there is a direct link. The restrictions on cash payments are beginning to bite. Historically they base their activity on scrap metals and waste removal which they charge for and then flytip while picking up /nicking anything they can lift and at they same time scoping out your vehicle and property whilst you are probably at work. I think that you will see a shift towards stealing more for resale, like defender doors on E Bay for example, to bolster up their falling cash income.

Secondly, Non ferrous has always been the most attractive due to higher values but they are more than willing to steal high quality iron/steel scrap from industrial manufacturers as well as sortings of a lower quality from households. My employers, as well most of its 400 or so customers who use steel, would definitely disagree with you. We all spend a fortune on security,monitored alarms, cctv, security guards etc...

There was a court case reported this week where they had nicked 120 tonnes of steel over a weekend from one company situated about 300 metres from where I am sitting at work, and used their own lorries to shuffle it to 2 small scap merchants! Believe it - they are a nightmare.

[Simon Smith]

Apparently since the change in the law regarding scrap metal, Kent police have reported an increase in theft of dogs for the reward money. and believe it to be the same people. So yes the change does mean they will steal something else instead. Though it didn't stop them clearing out our scrap at work last weekend.

[reb78]

Apparently since the change in the law regarding scrap metal, Kent police have reported an increase in theft of dogs for the reward money. and believe it to be the same people.

This has been happening round Potters Bar, Herts.

[Nigelw]

I used to manage a waste transfer station, I was always told on one site that they had enormous problems with the Pikeys coming in and taking the copper, brass and wire, although once I had installed the remote CCTV on a Sunday afternoon I found it was actually one of the guys who was supposed to be the site foreman, was actually stripping the wire and putting it into the land fill bins and then anything heavy brass/brazing wise went into the back of his car, found it even more alarming at the rate he was putting 5 gallon cans of red diesel in the boot too!!!

So just be aware, some thieves live a lot closer to home than you might realize

But, your new measures are nothing new for me here, and the biggest hitter in it all is that the cash paid for demolition scrap has to be declared and there is no divvy up for the lads as you have to pay tax on it

One way or another we are all gonna get screwed, just depends on by who?

[Superpants]

Sorry but there is a direct link. The restrictions on cash payments are beginning to bite. Historically they base their activity on scrap metals and waste removal which they charge for and then flytip while picking up /nicking anything they can lift and at they same time scoping out your vehicle and property whilst you are probably at work. I think that you will see a shift towards stealing more for resale, like defender doors on E Bay for example, to bolster up their falling cash income.

You say there is a direct link and then say ‘I think’: that is not a direct link, it is a conclusion you have drawn. If you have some evidence- perhaps you could share it, otherwise this is little better than scaremongering!!!

Simon’s comment about dogs is interesting, but I can’t find any evidence to back that up either. The most comprehensive article I can find makes no link with scrap thefts:

http://www.kentnews.co.uk/leisure/dog_owners_warned_of_dramatic_rise_in_pet_thefts_1_1950859

There is no link claimed either in the press release on the Kent Police website. Perhaps you could point us to the source?

I don’t disagree with you on the last point that metal thefts are a big issue- we have had visits at work (thankfully nothing taken), and have to remain vigilant- our neighbours were not so lucky, I’m just not convinced that a relatively small change in steel price implies the effect of an increase in other thefts.

[CwazyWabbit]

Dodgy people will go for whatever is the easiest way to make money, if you remove one path to make money they will look for a different one. Maybe it will be a legitimate path, maybe it won't. Just make sure you and your property are not the easiest path for them.

[Simon Smith]

The statement regarding Kent Police was on the TV news a month or so back, prbably Meridian News, I can't remember. I have also been told the same thing by Surrey officers that I talk to on a weekly basis. You may not see it in print, but that doesn't make it untrue!

At the end of the day reports of metal theft, particularly cable from railways has reduced (source Network Rail Spokesman on BBC news) so they WILL be looking elsewhere to make money.

[studmuffin]

You say there is a direct link and then say ‘I think’: that is not a direct link, it is a conclusion you have drawn. If you have some evidence- perhaps you could share it, otherwise this is little better than scaremongering!!!

Simon’s comment about dogs is interesting, but I can’t find any evidence to back that up either. The most comprehensive article I can find makes no link with scrap thefts:

http://www.kentnews.co.uk/leisure/dog_owners_warned_of_dramatic_rise_in_pet_thefts_1_1950859

There is no link claimed either in the press release on the Kent Police website. Perhaps you could point us to the source?

I don’t disagree with you on the last point that metal thefts are a big issue- we have had visits at work (thankfully nothing taken), and have to remain vigilant- our neighbours were not so lucky, I’m just not convinced that a relatively small change in steel price implies the effect of an increase in other thefts.

As regards stolen dogs look at an ITV news Meridian item on Wed 16 Jan called " Dogs stolen to order for ransom money". It specifically identifies organised crime gangs who have lost income from the clamp down on the lucrative cash for scrap trade. Incidentally, from experience I know that Gun dogs and working dogs are the most at risk category.

I agree that I have assumed that a substantial drop in scrap prices linked with a tightening grip on cash for scrap and HMRC action will drive these criminals to look elsewhere for a means to obtain cash. I believe that this is already happening, as do my local police. I meant this to be a heads up for everybody to be extra vigilant. Perhaps you are lucky enough to live in an area which is not as badly affected as where I work in the West Mids or where I live in rural Shropshire. It is rife with these low lifes travelling considerable distances for rich pickings, including rustling sheep using lurchers, another ready cash item . You obviously dont see a major problem but I just hope that everyone else is perhaps convinced to take a fair bit more care.

Cheers

Barry