perkins engine and overdrive question

[marky123]

Im new to the forum. my question can i have an overdrive and pto winch on my series 3 or just one of them as ive got a winch but i would really like an overdrive. also is it a big job to fit a perkins prima engine ive got the chance of one with all the parts to convert. is it a case of one in and the other in thank you

[Phil Hancock]

Overdrive or winch as they both use the same position on the gearbox.

[marky123]

thanks for that i think the over drive will win if i put a prima in

[LiamC]

The perkins prima is a nice engine and a good series conversion back in the day but with 200/300tdi's fairly cheap these days I would fit one of those, it will be easier to get spares part for, plus the timing belt is properly sealed in a metal timing case unlike the prima.

[Snagger]

Yep, Prima TD is good, Tdi is better. You can fit OD and PTO if you can find one of the rare PTOs that bolts onto the bottom of the transfer box in place of the steel plate, rather than to the back, but good luck finding one! I seem to vaguely recall someone talking about manufacturing them again, but I have no details.

[Tanuki]

The Perkins Prima is one of the better small pre-electric diesels [along with the Peugeot XUD9/XUD11] .

Steve Parker used to offer fitting kits for this sort of thing. http://www.steveparkers.com/peugeot-diesel

There's also http://www.nhua.co.uk/conversion/perkins.htm

[bill van snorkle]

I know nothing of the Prima engine or its rev range, but whatever, if you want to minimise a lifetime of gearbox hassles, my advice is to resist the temptation to fit 3.54:1 diffs or a high ratio transfercase conversion in order to take advantage of the increased engine power. Doing so places a similar strain on the gearbox as removing 31''diameter tyres and fitting 42'' diameter tyres in their place.

On a 109'' Wheelbase vehicle, a Fairey overdrive can be modified to drive a PTO for a winch, but on a SWB the #4 crossmember is in the way to accomodate the extra length of the OD plus PTO.

[Snagger]

I second Bill's remark. 3.54 diffs and an overdrive behind a standard Series transmission with a V8 or Tdi has been done by many people, but six months afetr doing it, I stripped two teeth off third gear - the box had been fine for about 30,000 and five years behind the Tdi with the original diffs. I've been buggering around trying to get the gear box to work properly for the last month, even though replacing the broken gear was simple.

They drive horribly on 3.54s, too - you need third gear rather than 4th for 30mph, which means that driving around town will put far more strain on the box, especially if you use the overdrive in third to drop the rpm a tad as it revs slightly high in 3rd without OD and much too low in 4th. It's over geared, and acceleration is sluggish. Go for an overdrive, but not a diff change.

[marky123]

Thanks for the info ive got a 90 300 tdi my old mans got a tdci. the only reason i want the prima is my friends got one thats returing 35mpg. he uses it every day hes got the pump turned up. my other friends got a 200 tdi with the blower of his. but the prima leaves it standing power wise and fuel wise. it is a fare bit noiser thow. they all have there good points my tdi pulls great but it drinks fuel my v8 disco was better lol.

[marky123]

I know nothing of the Prima engine or its rev range, but whatever, if you want to minimise a lifetime of gearbox hassles, my advice is to resist the temptation to fit 3.54:1 diffs or a high ratio transfercase conversion in order to take advantage of the increased engine power. Doing so places a similar strain on the gearbox as removing 31''diameter tyres and fitting 42'' diameter tyres in their place.

On a 109'' Wheelbase vehicle, a Fairey overdrive can be modified to drive a PTO for a winch, but on a SWB the #4 crossmember is in the way to accomodate the extra length of the OD plus PTO.

how do i go about having my pto winch and an overdrive in my lwb thank you

[Snagger]

There is this, but it's rare and the OD would appear to get in the way of the selector lever, so would need alteration: http://www.lrfaq.org/Series/images/RTC7016.pdf

[Bowie69]

The Prima is happier to rev higher, over 5K, so I wouldn't think you won't need such high gearing as if you were running a 200TDI... which only goes to 4K.

[bill van snorkle]

how do i go about having my pto winch and an overdrive in my lwb thank you

Unless you absolutely want to keep your PTO winch in preference to selling it and buying an electric winch, it may not be worth the amount of fabrication and engineering involved to adapt your PTO unit to the back of an overdrive. I have only done the adaption to an early Fairey overdrive. These had a splined projection behind the rear bearing, accessed by removing the 4 bolt aluminium rear cover. This splined projection was originally intended for a PTO adaptor that Fairey never got around to making available, despite their overdrive advertising sales brochures stating that "PTO adaptor will be available". Anyway basically what you would have to do is adapt a PTO male clutch dog ring to the splined projection and then fabricate a spacer adaptor housing that bolts to the 4 bolt flange of the overdrive. The adaptor housing would have a rectangular opening at top to accept the PTO dog clutch selector assembly, and a 6 bolt flange at the back to accept the standard winch PTO unit. Later Fairey overdrives don't have the splined section on the gear behind the 4 bolt cover, so additional expense would be incurred modifying the rear gear. The whole assembly ends up quite bulky and therefore doesn't suit SWBs. For a more compact arrangement, I had thought of running a train of spur gears (old series reverse idler gears) inside a slim casing, bolted directly to the back of the overdrive. The number one gear would be attached to the splined section at the rear of the overdrive, and the number 2 gear would be able to slide in or out of mesh with it to engage or disengage the PTO drive as required. A few other gears would be needed in the train to achieve the required offset.

PS, Are Fairey type overdrives even available anymore?

[tacr2man]

If you can find a bottom pto drive then you can fit the Fairey O/D in the upper PTO , and then the Hydraulic pump to the bottom pto . It is very fiddly to do as you have to do things like tacking nuts onto end of weling rods to get them on the nuts . Land rover said it wasnt possible , back in about 1979 , when i asked them . I went on to prove them wrong ! It was to drive a LR HYD winch . The diffs were changed to rover 90 (4.1 to 1 ratio) . The 11A 88 had 750x16 tyres and a RV8 engine . (Its still being licenced according to DVLA site ) 109 1 ton braking system , but it was a bit dangerous at top end !

Re prima parts are getting quite expensive , eg water pump for turbo version about £98