hoss1720 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 My 90 has recently started to become difficult to get into gear. I changed both master and slave cylinder about 12 months ago,and there don't appear to be any obvious leaks. Yesterday I drain the system and back bled it from the slave. All appeared fine. No issues selecting gears and no grinding. This morning, upon start up , it won't go into gear. Heavy grinding as if the clutch won't engage. The clutch arm is in place and the pushrods is attached and you can pull and push it . Wondering if I should replace both cylinders again. I replaced the clutch for a lock head one about 2 years ago. There hasn't been any slippage. I am struggling,any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwhacker Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Hello there. How much milage and how hard has the clutch been worked? A new slave and master cylinder would be my first port of call. I think the slave can leak into the bell housing. Easy enough to do and not expensive, go for a good brand. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoss1720 Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 140'000 miles. Changed at 100'000. It's not been worked hard at all. The pedal pressure has been fine , no roughness or hard spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I get the feeling your friction plate has self destructed. Will it drive if you start it in gear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoss1720 Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 It will. It has been getting slightly worse. I left the car for about 3 days ,started it, depressed the clutch,tried to engage a gear, just heavy grinding. Pumped the pedal about 10 times and all ok. Bled the system, again fine. This morning,the wife went to work in it. Stopped for diesel, came out and it wouldn't go into gear. Started it in gear and drove home . This led me to believe it is a master/ slave issue - but no obvious fluid loss. The fluid was nearly black in colour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Black fluid tends to suggest that one or more of the rubber seals in the master-cylinder have passed over to the Dark Side. The bits-of-rubber which are making the fluid black are bits-of-rubber no longer able to contribute towards supporting hydraulic pressure. I'm thinking your first course-of-action should be re-rubbering both master- and slave-cylinders followed by a bleeding session. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoss1720 Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 I've ordered a new master and slave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 When the clutch wont release its probably one of the bits of rubber floating in the fluid has got under the one way valve and so prevents the creation of pressure as the valve is in effect still open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoss1720 Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 Changed both cylinders today. Bled the system and all good. Went for a nice drive,plenty of gear changes,got home and left it on the drive for about 1 hr. Wife gets in it,starts it up and guess what - won't go into gear. The pedal is still good and the fluid level hasn't changed. What is wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reiny Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Something's telling me that one of the springs on the clutch plate is broken. Will it shift gears while moving? Can you engage gears when engine is turned off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Some years ago now we had a series in with a clutch that would not release, it had developed the faul while being driven so it was not stuck from standing. Removing the floor etc to get a look thro the little hole in the top of the bellhousing showed that the release bearing was in fact moving fine but the clutch still did not let go. Splitting the box and dropping the clutch revealed that the clutch lining had broken up and we had 3 thicknesses of ferodo on one side so the mechanism could not travel far enough to actually release the grip on the drive plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoss1720 Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 You can engage gears when the engine isn't running. If you put it into gear and start the engine with the clutch depressed,then release it the clutch operates normally ,but it won't let you select a ger with the engine running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reiny Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I'll bet it's clutch plate springs then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco_al Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Sounds more likely to be something to do with the cover. Engaging gear with the engine off, but being unable to when the engine is running is a clearance issue, usually caused by either incorrect clutch plate installation, flywheel pot depth and wrong clutch combo etc. As the clutch itself has not been disturbed, then it only leaves the release mechanism. I remember reading somewhere that there are different length pushrods on the slave? Unless, i'm getting confused with something else. Anyway you can get hold of a bore scope? Even a cheap one from Maplins may be worth investing in, and poke it up through the drain hole in the bellhousing, or through the release arm cover to see what's going on. Does it only do it when hot? or is it the same in the morning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoss1720 Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 Gearbox out. 2 broken springs in the drive plate. Not happy . Borg & beck clutch,less than 40'000 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Gearbox out. 2 broken springs in the drive plate. Not happy . Borg & beck clutch,less than 40'000 miles. I've replaced borg and Beck clutches with less than 10000 on them.... I always fit the Valeo 130 clutch's when I do them, broke mine at christmas that managed 7 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoss1720 Posted April 5, 2014 Author Share Posted April 5, 2014 Can you fit a 130 clutch to a 90 ? I have replaced it with another Borg & beck. I could understand the clutch going if I did a lot of towing or off road work but it doesn't. It's done the majority of its miles on road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 the 130 heavy duty clutch plate & cover will fit any of the pre 300tdi 4 cylinder engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoss1720 Posted April 6, 2014 Author Share Posted April 6, 2014 I'm not overly impressed with the suppliers either(landrover specialists) who I purchased both the original and replacement clutches from. I explained that the clutch had done little mileage and asked if they had any ideas as to why? No ideas, I did think they may have offered to send it back ,all they really wanted was to sell me a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoss1720 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 Don't believe this. Put it all back,bled off. Try to select reverse - heavy grinding. good firm pedal - what the hell is wrong with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 a long shot, but how was your spigot bush? in theory other than the clutch its the only thing that could somehow have gone tight and added drag, although i really really couldnt imagine it being that otherwise it would have been an absolute ball ache to put the box back in and also i cant see it being able to sieze up enough to actually make a difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoss1720 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 Spigot bush changed,wasn't worth not doing it. Tried to move it before, clutch isn't releasing for some reason. Looks like the box is going to have come out again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 clutch fork? although you seem to have covered all the bases so i would imagine you inspected that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoss1720 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 Changed for a reinforced one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoss1720 Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 3 broken springs in the drive plate. All changed and back on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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