g1no Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Hi there, i brought a p38 dse 2 days ago. Drop 25 miles home that day and drove locally for a couple of hours with no problems, had to do the same 25 mile journey the nxt afternoon then on my way back home i drove through quite a deep puddle, covered the bonnet, i looked at my dash and saw the temp gauge rising, pulled over let it cool down and put some cool water in and off i went and it was fine, the car is fine driving round town. So anyway i bled the radiator and then took it for a spin up the bypass and once over 50mph it started overheating again, thought it may be the thermostat as it was only overheating once trying to put the power on, i say this because everytime i put my foot down and the engine had to do some work was when the temp gauge would rise, like i said driving round locally at the 30mph speed limit the doesnt overheat, so i though the thermostat was not letting enough water through once the power is applied. I changed the thermostat today and the problem still exsists. However, i did notice that once the car had reached temperature or overheated and i turned the ignition off i couldnt hear the cooling fans on. So took the grill off and could see that the twin fans were not coming on at all, is this normal? Also i noticed the viscous fan doesnt seem to be as powerfull as others iv seen in the past. Anyway the only way i had of testing the twin fans was to wire them up straight to the battery, done this n took it for a spin done this and it seemed like the fan was sort of keeping the temp down but when going up a hill a speed or applying acceleration the gauge started to rise but would start coming down once i eased off the acceleration, bearing in mind i only wired up one of the twin fans it was sort of making a difference. Please can anybody help? This is the fourth rangie ive owned and its only ever the petrol ones that suffer with head gasket problems, is this head gasket symtoms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 The fans are the air con fans, the engine cooling should be able to be done by the viscous alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g1no Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 Hi bowie69, ok so i need to test the viscous fan. By reading through some of the topics and post in this forum i see that a lazy viscous fan is a common problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g1no Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 I suppose the evidence is there to point to viscous fan, because its only overheating when the engines doing more work, ie... When doin 30mph an idle fan doesnt come into the equation because the engine doesnt need cooling down. Im going to change the viscous fan tomorrow, i will let you know the outcome. Thanks for your help i was thinking it was the two fans at the front, can i ask if its the viscous fan that stays on once the ignition is turned off to cool the engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete3000 Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 if you had to put water in it, was it low? , depending on the age of the rr it could need a new radiator. It could be if it is losing water only when power is on? that the pressure is forcing the water out through a pinprick hole in the aluminium/copper core? Depends on losing water or not? other wise maybe the rad core is blocked, as the engine doesn't circulate through the rad until the thermostat is open. You could try running the heater on full pelt if possible to see if this drops the engine temp once it displays the symptoms. As Bowie says the viscous does the engine cooling, the fan should roar/blow when it is working hard, when it gets too cold the joint frees up and goes weaker becoming less noisy, failed ones can stick and not change in noise. ours usually starts up noisy and then goes quiet after a minute or so. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 The plastic water pump on those likes to give out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 The BMW Diesel head gasket can fail and cause coolant loss. It doesn't get the same publicity because this failure mode isn't as prevalent as the petrol engine failures that cause coolant loss. The others are correct, the viscous coupled fan provides the majority of engine cooling. It's best to treat the viscous coupling as a service item. It is as likely to need changing as the thermostat. You might not realise, but if left untouched overnight the oil in the VC drains to the bottom of the VC, and thus 'locks' the VC. The consequence described here isn't expressly presented in RAVE. Before the first start of the day, open the bonnet. When the engine starts, blip the throttle (2 / 2.5 k), you will hear the fan roar. Leave to tick over, listen to the noise level, hold your hand over the top of the fan shroud, the side nearest the air box, to feel the air flow. After a couple of minutes the noise and air flow will markedly decrease, this is as the VC oil gets centrifuged into its normal working position, allowing the VC to slip. This change in noise is what Pete3000 described "ours usually starts up noisy and then goes quiet after a minute or so" Of course, the full noisy roar and normal can only be truly established if you have a known good example, which I'll assume you don't have (look for a clean VC to see if the previous owner had it changed). Don't buy second hand, don't buy a petrol version. Do the test as described before and after fitting the new one to validate the purchase (and this advice). You CAN buy just the VC, without the fan, ERR2266 is listed for the 300tdi, but it is associated with the fan ERR 2789, which you should find moulded into one of the fan blades. John Craddock seems to stock ERR2266 cheaply at the moment. If someone has changed to a later fan, that VC may NOT suit, I don't know. The current full assembly is PGG101290. I've never been clear of any advantages of the later fan; there may be some, but I've never seen them enumerated. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Have to say I think elbekko may have this one, cooling isn't required so much round town at low revs, but build up the heat output of the engine like on a fast road and if the pump aint pumping then you won't get cooling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g1no Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 Right then guys, only just got the chance to have another mess about with this rr. I read in a post yesterday that you can roll up a news paper and try and stop the viscous fan with it, obviously if it stops the fan then its faulty. The post was right....... A rolled up news paper stopped the fan from spinning! So now as its sunday tomorrow i dont no weather taking the fan off and cleaning it i might be able to get it working again, dont know how goin through a big puddle would knock the fan out but it has. Or wait untill monday and buy a new or refurbed one, any suggestions on what the correct road to walk down would be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete3000 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 If you are getting the fan off, don't bother trying to clean vc as it's a sealed unit, David had some good advice for you along with part numbers. You still didn't say if you were losing water? Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g1no Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 Ye sorry pete, not losing water mate, only when she gets too hot it boils out the expansion tank. I spoke to a local land rover specialist today and he is trying to steer me off the viscous fan towards the water pump. Now i bled the radiator the other day and whilst doing so i could see that the water pump was pushing the water into the rad. The guy seems to think that im wasting my time with the fan even though its not kicking in at all. He said when driving round at 50 or under the fan isnt needed, and when driving over 50mph the air flying through the grill shuold be enough to cool the engine down. So what is the point of the viscous fan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 The fan is there to provide a high air flow at low speeds... If you are off-road for example, low range climbing a mountain pass.. The engine is working hard and air flow from the vehicle speed is limited. The voscous unit pull a lot of air through the radiator to cool the water and engine. When travelling at speed, the air rammed through the grill / radiator is cooling the water in the radiator, not the fan. Someone mentioned above that the water pump is plastic.. If you are not getting good circulation, the water in the radiator may be cooled but not the water taking too long to circulate in the engine. I would also consider the thermostat.... If it's not opening fully, it will be allowing enough coolant to flow at low speeds (Engine not working hard) but when the engine load increases, if water / coolant is not flowing well it will not cool effectively. Thoughts to consider.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g1no Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 Hi v8 freak, i changed the thermostat on friday but the problem still exsists, i think im going to change the fan next as its not working. If the problem still exsists the il have a look at the water pump. The fan will arrive tomorrow so will let u know the outcome once fitted. A friend is going to help fit the fan and will do a head gasket test too.... 2 birds with 1 stone! Thank you to everyone for your advice........ Much appreciated!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I spoke to a local land rover specialist today and he is trying to steer me off the viscous fan towards the water pump. Now I bled the radiator the other day and whilst doing so I could see that the water pump was pushing the water into the rad. The guy seems to think that I'm wasting my time with the fan even though its not kicking in at all. He said when driving round at 50 or under the fan isn't needed, and when driving over 50mph the air flying through the grill should be enough to cool the engine down. So what is the point of the viscous fan? Which one, if any, will he do 'sale or return' on, even if fitted? "He said when driving round at 50 or under the fan isn't needed". I don't 'buy' that at all. I know, he has his professional expertise, based on experience with many vehicles, to back him up, whereas I only have experience of one vehicle. Tell you what, the 'no-cost' test. Take the fan off, do your local test drive "the car is fine driving round town", and see if it's still fine. I'm being cheeky. Removing the fan may be easier than changing the pump (or the thermostat), but it isn't a 5 minute job. From Paddocks the water pump STC3342 is £49.08 inclusive of Carriage & VAT. From Paddocks the VC I suggest, ERR2266, is £35.70 inclusive of Carriage & VAT. I do suggest you double check that your fan is ERR2789 before spending money. If it is, the VC ERR2266 will do the job. To check, release the top of the fan shroud away from the radiator. Ease the shroud away from the radiator and look / feel the engine face of each blade of the fan. One of them will have the ERR2789 number standing proud of the surface. You may need a torch to see it. Good Luck. (Composed before I saw your 1.16pm post. I think you are doing the right thing, when you know strongly suspect a component is faulty there is no point in not changing it.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Right then guys, only just got the chance to have another mess about with this rr. I read in a post yesterday that you can roll up a news paper and try and stop the viscous fan with it, obviously if it stops the fan then its faulty. The post was right....... A rolled up news paper stopped the fan from spinning! So now as its sunday tomorrow i dont no weather taking the fan off and cleaning it i might be able to get it working again, dont know how goin through a big puddle would knock the fan out but it has. Or wait untill monday and buy a new or refurbed one, any suggestions on what the correct road to walk down would be? It should only munch the news paper if the air from the radiator is super-hot causing the VC to lock up, if it stopped and the engine wasn't very hot then this is normal. I still say it is water pump, your problems do not sound fan-related, as it gets hot at speed where a fan does nothing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g1no Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 Had the head gasket checked this afternoon and its fine, the guy also checked the viscous fan for me too, he said as i was putting the revs on the fan was speeding up so thats fine, and the water pump is on its way in the morning. Hopefully the problem will be solved once the pump is fitted. The reason for me thinking it was the fan is because there is no roar coming from the fan at all, in others iv had you can always hear that. Suppose its almost like a feature on a p38. Everything else seemed fine, but it did make sense that the pump could still be pumping enough water through for round town trips, but not enough for too feed the engine and cooling system at speed or long journys. I should of realised this when i bled the rad, even after owning 4 rr p38's im still learning. Anyway thanks again guys. I will let you know the outcome of the waterpump tomorrow. Oh yeah i also noticed that there is no a/c belt, must be the reason that the twin fans arnt working behind the grill. Lmao, one is also ordered for tomorrow!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g1no Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 Ok guys thanks for the advice it was the water pump. Just had it fitted and put my foot down on local bypass and it didnt get hot! But i was parked outside the chinese when came off bypass, parked in idle whilst waiting for my curry and the temp needle started to move past the half way point !?! Dont know quite what to make of that ! Any suggestions ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 If it doesn't get to the red then it's OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g1no Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 Ok thanks again guys !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g1no Posted June 13, 2014 Author Share Posted June 13, 2014 Oooh dear guys, drove the rr for two days after getting the water pump fitted, whilst driving i changed my heater setting in the car (turned it down) and it got hot. Got home and bled the system and it seems to be fine, hopefully just an air lock. The viscous still isnt getting any faster with revs, ive got a new fan off a friend hope it will fit just waiting for a friend to pop up and have a look. I hope this will help keep the engine that little bit cooler! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Perfectly possible that there still was an air lock in the heater system, although that system should be constant flow, so strange that that triggered it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g1no Posted June 14, 2014 Author Share Posted June 14, 2014 Yes thats what i thought and keeep being told, but im a little lost with this now. Ive beld the radiator, changed the thermostat and bled the system again, had the water pump changed and the system was bled again and it still gets too hot. A mechanic came round yesterday and told me its early signs of headgasket and advised me against having the gasket changed, just incase the problem still persists once gasket is changed. Then im looking at propper money as it could be a cracked block! I will have to take it somewhere next week and try and get the system bled professionally as it cant be a cracked block or head gasket otherwise the car would overheat within 5 minutes of the car starting wouldnt it ? Not many options left now ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwakers Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 have you changed the radiator yet? i guarantee that's your issue! your symptoms are almost identical to mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Stop worrying and drive it till it goes bang The air lock is quite possible, I assume no further issues since that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g1no Posted June 14, 2014 Author Share Posted June 14, 2014 Yes its had a new rad in it, before i aquired the vehicle. Lol no other issues, was stuck in traffic today and the temp gauge started rising to the red, turned the heating on full blast and it went back down to half way !?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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