Lewis Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 That's all the photos which are accessible to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 Yes, but there are still only 7 viewable pics and one video Is there any others you wanted posting besides the hummock ones Bill? No Lewis, the hummock photos are the ones that are relevant to my argument. The public are obviously not seeing what I'm seeing on the photobucket page, so I'll have to play around with it to see where I have screwed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 Ok, apologies, I've fcukd around with Photobucket a bit, and the 2 photos I was referring to are the last 2 not the first 2. That is photos # 8 and 9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Here ya go If you can visualise those diagonally opposed drooping wheels being restricted in their movement by retaining the springs, what would you guess at the outcome? WildFing is as stable as a rock in that situation, but with balanced suspension and retained springs, those drooped wheels would be well off the ground and any imbalance would cause the truck to flop over to the heavier corner with a good chance of falling on its side Lol your comparing apples and oranges, your running a stiff short coil and if you were to tie them in you are right it would hold up the down hill wheel and due to front weight bias pull/tip the truck Also you have your system setup for more down travel than up the stiff dislocating spring allows this, a retained spring system will be linear in its rate (unless you can bind up coils under compression) this means that its ride height must be in the middle of its travel that means to set it up for less up travel you need to add a jounce or bump to increase the rate on up travel (hyd bumps do this very well) What I'm getting at is to do either properly you need to design a system around this.... if you adapt from one to the other you will compromise it in both Just on a side note.... does wildfing balance on the front or rear axle, it is very hard to get suspension truely balanced, normally one is stiffer and more dominant, normally the front due to the stiffer springs required because of the greater weight, but given the level of your mods lol and the narrow front spring mounts..... you wouldn't have any video of it walking over articulating terrain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 Well as you can see from the level attitude in those two photos, the suspension is quite close to evenly balanced. Even progressing up the ramp, both front and rear axles share articulation fairly consistently all the way up to their 30 degrees maximum each. For video of it walking over uneven terrain, you could go to page 4 of the Members Vehicles forum and on page 11 of the thread titled Bills LR's there is some video footage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Here ya go Lol your comparing apples and oranges, your running a stiff short coil and if you were to tie them in you are right it would hold up the down hill wheel and due to front weight bias pull/tip the truck Also you have your system setup for more down travel than up the stiff dislocating spring allows this, a retained spring system will be linear in its rate (unless you can bind up coils under compression) this means that its ride height must be in the middle of its travel that means to set it up for less up travel you need to add a jounce or bump to increase the rate on up travel (hyd bumps do this very well) What I'm getting at is to do either properly you need to design a system around this.... if you adapt from one to the other you will compromise it in both Just on a side note.... does wildfing balance on the front or rear axle, it is very hard to get suspension truely balanced, normally one is stiffer and more dominant, normally the front due to the stiffer springs required because of the greater weight, but given the level of your mods lol and the narrow front spring mounts..... you wouldn't have any video of it walking over articulating terrain Bill my wife says that the suspension on your car looks unnatural . Admittedly, in that situation, when the car is perfectly horizontal, I think more travel is better. How would you say your car on side slopes and off camber situations? daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 Bill my wife says that the suspension on your car looks unnatural . Admittedly, in that situation, when the car is perfectly horizontal, I think more travel is better. How would you say your car on side slopes and off camber situations? daan It behaves much better on off cambers than when I had normal shackles Daan. I can confidently turn onto steep downhills from a level surface without having to bother much about hitting the slope squarely. Initial body roll on full side slopes is similar to any SWB LandRover, but the uphill side rear springs run out of push after a few inches, and the downhill spring rate becomes quite a bit stiffer against the twin bump stops that are mounted on the springs around 12" for and aft of the axle. I would like a bit more up travel to cushion the bumps, but with portals it's difficult to keep the ride height relatively low and retain good uptravel without notching the chassis rails above the axles, and that is a big no no in this country, so I live with the compromise . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 The other thing is, with dislocating springs (and sufficiently long shocks) the drooping wheel can go down so far that the lower link angle gets really extreme with all its negative effects of trying to push the body upwards when it tries to walk under the vehicle. Usually the result of a very unbalanced suspension when people try to get as much articulation from the rear as possible to compensate for the crappy front end travel. I would prefer a balanced setup front/rear with retained springs. I've never driven one with dislocating springs but to me I would think it would feel way more predictable and stable with retained springs. I think you have hit some of the nail on the head! I think its some of the instability on a angled drop is down to a mixture of unbalanced setups and pushing the stock arm arrangements past suitable angles. most people with some flex have huge rear travel and when the stiff front end drops in a hole causing the the body to roll with it and one rear wheel to drop down and try to walk under the body and tip the body more! I seem to remember Dan saying that most common problems on long travel set ups is that they are under-sprung..... So I've no idea where that leave us. I have to agree, The only way I can see a retained setup being an advantage over a properly set up articulation with no dislocation is on side slope where the axle/wheel weight would help it from rolling. Bill my wife says that the suspension on your car looks unnatural . Admittedly, in that situation, when the car is perfectly horizontal, I think more travel is better. How would you say your car on side slopes and off camber situations? daan Looking at the pics of Bills LR makes me think some sort of opposite corner ARB system would help with the instability on side angles, so the opposite corner can only do to an extent what the other is doing... to the the only way I can see this working is with a ram/air system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I really have not much experience with coilers and dislocating suspensions, but MDA4x4 certainly has. They are one of the most famous extreme offroader builders in Spain, They decided some years ago to discard front coils in their 4.6 90 ...and fitted leafs They said that a more "fixed" front axle gave much better handling downhill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Some pics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Some more...Bill, note that they fitted shackles at rear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 A ninety with leafsprings! Never thought I'd live to see the day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 To be fair that does flex alright and a balanced amount! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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