Discovery 1 '96 imobilized: cranks but no start

[Smiley]

Hello,

I have been researching a no start issue on my 1996 Discovery 1. Lot's of stuff on it, Essentially a "Safari Gard" stage 11, for those whom can remember that far back. Have had it since new. So, replaced engine, transmission and transfer case. Could not start. Thought it was immobilized, dealer adjusted transmission linkages and shift linkages. Drove it home. Still needed to reassemble the interior from the swap. Center console, shifter etc. The dealer drove it and tested it in High/Low and all gears. All is good. Long story short had to disconnect battery to reinstall starter heat shield. I believe: I have goofed up the alarm system and have crank but no ECU ie no FUEL.

1. I have an old battery. Getting a new AGM or Gel.

2. Disconnected the battery and screwed up the alarm system. I did not do any precautions when disconnecting. Truck was unlocked and hood open when disconnected.

3. Charged battery. Engine cranks fine. Just no firing.

4. Remotes lock and unlock doors. All of them.

5. I can smell fuel after cranking.

6. I feel there is not a spark, hence the ECU has imobilized the engine.

7. I do not have a "Spider" unit, as I took the dash apart before I went to the dealer. These I believe are an EU and Europe item. My local dealer in Walnut Creek, CA has not heard of one in 20 years... in the US ever.

8. The US uses the standard 1515 EKC. Emerg. Key Code on all north american early models. So I'm told. EU used vehicle specific codes.

9. I read a post about from "Rockreither" in response to BogMonster's write on on the Spider unit. Since I know I do not have a Spider unit, does anyone have any information on how to resolve the no fuel or no start on the alarm system. Rockreither mentioned with alarm system Z163 that you solder a jumber between pins 10 and 11 and the truck will start.

10. have completed the 1515 NAS code and the alarm code stopped flashing. I finally got it right from BogMonster's write up. Without waiting the 5 seconds and the 5 minutes the flashing light does not stop. The light did stop after the procedure described.

11. However the truck still will not start.

I would like to be able to just bypass the start and fuel pins if anyone out there has had success in doing so.

Thanks,

John B

'96 Land Rover Discovery

Rubicon Tested.

ARB Front and Rear

Safari Gard stage 2

Stuff.

[Happyoldgit]

Welcome to the forum John, I'm sure someone will be along to answer you questions soon. Please read th einfo regarding new member posts having to be approved by a moderator before they are made visible

[Boydie]

I'm assuming here (and assuming can make an ass out of you and me) that its a 300TDi or 200Tdi Diesel, if it is then simple solution is to run a lead from your battery to the fuel solonoid at the rear of the Fuel Injection Pump (FIP) if it fires up and runs then you have your solution and you simply have to trace back to the Multi Function Unit (MFU) located at the rear of the main under-dash fuse panel to see why you dont have a power supply, -- it could be as simple as a blown fuse, broken wire, bad connection or a defective ignition switch -- to turn off the engine simply remove the lead, if it's not a deisel sorry, I'm unable to assist.

[Maverik]

This might not be possible on a later 300tdi due to the silly security widget that is installed over the top of the fuel stop solenoid...

[alland]

hi there reading your prob i guess its a v8 smelling petrol and no spark? i woulds first check to see if alarm works as it should like yoiu said doors locking and ect if so.then i would check to see if all leads are correct ,then see if you might of snagged a wire while putting in the shield,if not see if you can get power to the distrubutor via another way and check amplifier in distrubutor as youve touched nothing else , otherwise i would say immobilizer i would look at bypassing it prob by the ignition area im guessing never had a v8 but my mate had one and had same prob i will ask what hew did hope this helps

[Boydie]

Understood Maverik, but he did say 1996 and the little doozie you speak of came out after my 1998 Series 1 - 300TDi

[Maverik]

I'd disagree, I took one (hacked one) off a 1996 300tdi not all that long ago, hence why I know about them...

[Maverik]

Understood Maverik, but he did say 1996 and the little doozie you speak of came out after my 1998 Series 1 - 300TDi

I'd disagree, I took one (hacked one) off a 1996 300tdi not all that long ago, hence why I know about them...

[Bowie69]

Can you check for a spark?

You should be able to hard wire the the coil temporarily to get it running, that is, if you have fuel as you describe.

Bear in mind if you have had no spark, it is quite likely you have flooded/fouled the plugs by now, and may need removing, and drying out.

Then we have the Hotwire diagnostics in the tech archive, follow it step by step and see what you find

[Smiley]

9. I read a post about from "Rockreither" in response to BogMonster's write on on the Spider unit. Since I know I do not have a Spider unit, does anyone have any information on how to resolve the no fuel or no start on the alarm system. Rockreither mentioned with alarm system Z163 that you solder a jumber between pins 10 and 11 and the truck will start.

Hello,

Some more info. This is a gas engine. US, distributor less. It has the power pack up by the fire wall. The heat shield I was putting on was for the starter. The starter is operating and only has 2 wires, batt and solenoid wire, so this appears to be working. I also did not touch anything else on truck in between putting on the heat shield and it not starting. The issue is that the ECU eng. mgmt. system is tied into the alarm sys. If the alarm is not Mobilized, then it can shut off starter, fuel, or ignition. In my case ignition appears turned off. The ECU will NOT mobilize and provide ignition or any other function to operate unless the alarm is cleared. I was hoping to get some information on the above #9 in my post. Has anyone been successful in jumping pins 10 annd 11 in the alarm box. Was "Rockerither" referring to a gas or diesel. In the US models this "non spider version" is under the passenger side dash. It's also referred to as the "green monster" alarm box. Any advise is appreciated. I've seen it. It is about a 3" x 5" square and plugs into about 20 wires.

I tried the NAS US 1515 door key procedure. The alarm light went off as it is supposed to. However the truck did not start. Same issue.

Next I'll try the battery disconnect with the key in the #2 position and then reconnecting. I have heard this works. The worst I can do is SuperLock it. Then off to the dealer for the super computer no one else has which can mobilize these vehicles.

Thanks,

John

[Boydie]

Hi John and a belated welcome, as a relative newcomer myself can I give you a few tips if you need some help,

1.) give the LR model,

2.) date of manufacture,

3.) engine type and capacity,

4.) fuel being used drive (manual or auto)

5.) and any other info about your vehicle that you might think relevent to assist others in helping you,

That way you dont get replies that simply dont help you. Yes, bridging connections 10 & 11 will cut out the auto ignition lock on your security unit, again I'm assuming here that it is the same as the unit that was on my Disco, - just use a cut down paper clip and insulate it with some heat shrink, push it into the multi-wire terminal.

[Smiley]

Boydie and Disco experts:

Hi there. Where do I update my signature line? Updated some profile infor but did not see a signature line. I Sorry I just joined. We have a 1996 LR Disco 1, purchased new. 4.0L gas. ARB lockers front and rear. Warn 9K on a Safari Gard front bumper, Safari Gard rear bumber, rock sliders and bent trailing arms, sway bar disconn. BFG 33" Mud terrains.

I saw your post. Thank you so much for the reply. Can you describe where this pin 10 and 11 is at and what it is on? Is this on the Z163 or somewhere else. Do you have a photo of it or diagram of the pin count? Is it the "green alarm box" under the psgr side dash. It says something about being an alarm receiver I believe. I don't want to bridge the wrong thing and burn up the truck.

Some more history. I was towing very heavy loads while doing a house remodel. I blew up the transmission and or the transfer case as the truck locked up going 65 towing a heavy dual axle trailer. So, I installed a donor 4.0 v8 LR engine, transmission and transfer case. All is left is the interior to reassemble the center console etc. Smiley comes from a friend in NCRC (Northern CA Rover Club) whom said Laurel my better half was always Smiling while wheeling.

On a second note do you or others on the list recommend removing the lockout solionoid on the transfer case? Its a round pin plunger which can be removed easily while the tunnel is all apart. As a side note when reassembling the center console etc, I'm using theraded machine bolts vs the pop rivets which were originally installed. So that if I have to dive in again it won't be so difficult.

Thanks in advance LR4x4 for any help on this one. Trying to save Smiley.

Thanks,

John B.

[Smiley]

Boydie and Disco experts:

Hi there. Where do I update my signature line? Updated some profile infor but did not see a signature line. I Sorry I just joined. We have a 1996 LR Disco 1, purchased new. 4.0L gas. ARB lockers front and rear. Warn 9K on a Safari Gard front bumper, Safari Gard rear bumber, rock sliders and bent trailing arms, sway bar disconn. BFG 33" Mud terrains.

I saw your post. Thank you so much for the reply. Can you describe where this pin 10 and 11 is at and what it is on? Is this on the Z163 or somewhere else. Do you have a photo of it or diagram of the pin count? Is it the "green alarm box" under the psgr side dash. It says something about being an alarm receiver I believe. I don't want to bridge the wrong thing and burn up the truck.

Some more history. I was towing very heavy loads while doing a house remodel. I blew up the transmission and or the transfer case as the truck locked up going 65 towing a heavy dual axle trailer. So, I installed a donor 4.0 v8 LR engine, transmission and transfer case. All is left is the interior to reassemble the center console etc. Smiley comes from a friend in NCRC (Northern CA Rover Club) whom said Laurel my better half was always Smiling while wheeling.

On a second note do you or others on the list recommend removing the lockout solionoid on the transfer case? Its a round pin plunger which can be removed easily while the tunnel is all apart. As a side note when reassembling the center console etc, I'm using theraded machine bolts vs the pop rivets which were originally installed. So that if I have to dive in again it won't be so difficult.

Thanks in advance LR4x4 for any help on this one. Trying to save Smiley.

Thanks,

John B.

[Smiley]

Hi there:

I wanted to hopefully get some clarification on this Z163 US Disco, V8, Gas 4.0 bypass the alarm process.

I have been reading up on posts from I have read posts which indicate to bridge pin 10 and 11 on the connector which goes into the z163 alarm unit. There are two plugs which go into the z163. They are below the psgr. side kick panel under and behind the glove box.

Components: Per the Original LR Electrical Diagram Book from Land Rover Electrical Troubleshooting book. (Component Location: Views Pg 48. Connectors: pg Connector 26 & 48 )

1. Z163 the Alarm unit.

2. Connector C274 (12-W) 12 pins and White in color. This is on the forward side.

3. Connector C225 (26-S) 26 pins and solid in color. (not sure what color it is. I assume S means "solid" color? This is on the aft or towards the rear.

Question:

1. Which connector is pin 10 and 11 to be bridged C274 or C225? Both have more than 11 pins, so it could be either one.

2. Does this do what or allow what: Start, fuel, ECU, full alarm bypass?

3. I have read that this 10-11 pin bridge is primarily providing gnd to the park, neutral switch, which then provides go for the truck to start. It has been suggested to just ground this side of the park neutral switch. Seems like this would be an easy fix since I have the whole center console and transmission tunnel torn apart and am in the process of putting it back together. It makes sense that if that switch is interrupted from making ground, so does the alarm, and the ecu and so on down the chain so no start. (However, mine turns over, so somewhere along the line the ECU is turned off for spark and engine management.)

If I could get some feedback on which Connector to bridge it would be very helpful. I can then follow up with a write up and photo to end some of this mystery. Once I have enough posts I can post the pin connector diagrams and colors for others. I have spent already 2 trips to the dealer in regards to this problem of "imobilization". $$$$ Certainly others have had to also.

Thanks in advance for any helpful insights.

John

96 Discovery l, V8, Gas, US, Bought new. 4.0, 4" lift, ARB FT and RR., etc.

SF Bay Area, CA, US

[Jtgreyeyes]

Every topic about the same exact problem I have starts with the question and leads either to "taking it to the dealership" which I really want to avoid, or it still remains a mystery on how to bypass an immobilizer on a North American Specification (NAS) Discovery I.

By the way, NAS Discovery I doesn't have a black box located behind the heater/ac vents mentioned here: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=86

I checked there on mine and did not find the black spider box.

Anyway after reading this thread it seems to have halted on a question Of bypassing this immobilizer for the NAS version

no other website blog has gotten this far with the NAS version on finding out HOW TO bypass the immobilizer.

If anyone can confirm the connections "smiley" seems to have solved for bypassing the immobilizer

Or if anyone knows of a way to do so.. Input would save me taking it to the dealer $125/hr. And others going through the same probs.

-Jonathan

Land Rover Discovery 1 1996 (NAS)

[Ally V8]

The immobilisation problem you have is in the engine ecu - not the alarm ecu. The Gems engine ecu is not seeing the correct code from the alarm ecu so will not mobilise. P38 Range Rover's are well known for this problem,but in this case the code comes from the BECM under the drivers seat,not the green alarm box of a NAS spec Discovery 1. here in the UK there are plenty of companies who can remove the robust immobilisation from a Gems ecu, I guess there must be places in the US who could do the same.

The other alternative is to drop an Email to blackbox-solutions.com and see if they can supply one of their Synchmates set up for NAS D1 / Gems. Their website does not list one,but it has to be worth a try.Might be cheaper than getting the dealer to do a relearn with Testbook...