JB750 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Which head gasket does the collective recommend? Laminated or multi-layer metal one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I've tried both, the only failure I've experienced is with the metal multi-layer ones (genuine Land Rover -not copies) and this was with a skimmed block - 0.001mm to remove minute corrosion indentations around the 3 triangular water jacket openings and a brand new cylinder head and a full set of brand new head and bolts, I have since done well over 250,000 kilometres with the laminated with no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangy35 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Yep laminated, buy good brand.....Payen, Elring, Kholben Scmit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally V8 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 As above,sound advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB750 Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 Cheers guys, laminated it is then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I've never had an MLS gasket fail after fitting, but the original composite gasket a couple of times. I would say that an MLS gasket is better, but everything else has to be perfect (deck, head face, correct torque tightening sequence, etc). Composite gaskets will not necessarily last the life of the engine, whereas MLS are more likely to. Just my opinion, but composite gaskets wear out, whereas MLS don't. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Sorry Les but I disagree with you on this one, with either component what's to wear out? The composite gasket will however, to a minute degree, "flex" with the engine and expand & contract to maintain a seal, I'm not certain that a series of metal plates will do this to the same degree. The same applies to the notorious "P" gasket, I've never had a composite fail but had 2 of the metal items go on me and I'll never use them again. Incidentally JB750 if you are replacing the rear welsh-plug replace the front one as well, it's behind the above mentioned "P" gasket / water pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 can I ask are you talking about Tdi items, Td5 items or just H/G's in general. It's just I haven't seen anything relating to LR H/G choice before, and it's only a couple of months since I put a layered metal one on my D2. Just took it for granted that Turners wouldn't send me anything sub standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 MLS gaskets are getting more common - you quite often have a choice between the original composite and an MLS. Turners always supply the best part, so I wouldn't worry about it. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally V8 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 MLS gaskets are getting more common - you quite often have a choice between the original composite and an MLS. Turners always supply the best part, so I wouldn't worry about it. Les. Interesting to note Richard Turner only lists composite Elring for 200/300TDI's.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Phew! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 i always go for an elring head gasket every time! never had a problem, only reasons for change was other engine work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I'll add a hypothesis to this, one that I personally have never tried but ....... In my annual outback travels I do carry a spare head gasket(a composite one) and a full set of new head bolts, however with composite gaskets being, to a minute extent "compressible" I have heard of small head leaks being rectified,-- albeit as a quick-fix measure --- by really torqueing up the head bolts just to get the car to a reasonable service area where a new gasket can be installed - for example the Canning Stock Route in Western Australia is 1800 kilometres long and NO roadhouses, you even have to arrange for a 205 litre (44 gallon drum) fuel drop to be made at a half way point about 6 weeks prior to your departure. I would not feel comfortable with a multi plate cylinder head gasket on these trips, and while I acknowledge that these multi-plate gaskets are becoming more standard the Land Rover Tdi engine is to my knowledge is the only diesel engine ever designed to have the piston crown rise above the engine block deck, (when someone from Messer's Perkins can explain the logic behind that design feature I would be interested to hear it) the original gasket was a composite for good reason and I'll stick with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Td5's does too Iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Trust Land Rover and BMW - George I guess that's one reason why Isuzu engines are good for a million kilometres. I can only assume that the base reason is that if the piston rises above the block and is hard up to the head (less a couple of thou) at the point of combustion then there is a reduced stress on the gasket however as a qualified combustion engineer I can tell you that there are easier ways of avoiding this stress by dishing the piston crown into the piston combustion chamber and designing the injection pattern to suit-- of course this adds to the cost of machining the pistons and injectors so I guess that's the answer. It reminds me of an American speedway engine very popular years ago that had the head cast as part of the block, a bitch to replace valves as the crank and pistons had to be removed first but these engines ran at incredible compressions and were very reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I get what you mean, taper it in from the edges, but ever seen a Td5 piston? I think you're better off not trying to guess what LR think about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 From your photo George it looks identical to the 300TDi item. When I rebuilt my engine eons ago I installed new pistons and had them ceramically coated on the crowns to reduce thermal transfer through the piston and into the motor, the brand new head was also coated with the same ceramic material,-- again to reduce heat transfer into the head, my main fear was that the head could have warped during the high temperature curing process, this didn't happen but the firm that carried out the coating did have to re-coat the Teflon skins on the piston skirts. End result was I now use a 3 hole head gasket due to the piston coating thickness as the piston crowns now sit 65 thou above the block. The other matter for concern was that none of the con-rods were the exact same length When I assembled the crank, con-rods and pistons the range was from 63 to 65 above the block face so I had to have the three shorter errant rods stretched to exactly match the longest and then had them all shot peened to release any stress and then balanced with the pistons attached. Little wonder LR quote (I believe) that compression tests of +/- 70psi between cylinders is acceptable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Had no idea the Tdi's had a chamber in the piston too. Given that other thread I have to ask, if you could go back would you take the Toyota Iain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Sorry, multiple posts. Browser issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 George, quite possibly although the Toyota Series 80 Land Cruiser uses a considerable greater amount of fuel the additional rear space once the rear seats removed would be a huge benefit, to say nothing of the extra 90 kw of power. As for the body we don't have a rust problem in Oz excepting those very few owners who drive into salt water with their boats. The downside being the costs of spare parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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