CV Jointed Series Axle - custom or Stage 1 V8

[twodoorgaz]

OP here: nearly there now, photos to follow: have a few axles in bits ready to trial and to send to the machine shop - KAM have stage 1 23/24 front halfshafts listed on their brochure. Won't be ready to order them for a month or two (£££) so haven't called to see if they have them on the shelf: part numbers are KAM211 and KAM212.

Jai - I've got one 109V8 swivel ball sat on the shelf - I need it for my mock-up but can post pics of the scalloping inside to clear the CV if you need them.

I'm after a few random Stage 1 bits if anyone has some in their toolbox: Swivel pin and stub axle - not concerned with what condition they're in, one of each'll do, reasonable price paid - its just for a mock-up. Basically will take whatever 109V8 axle spares are available just drop me a PM. Will post in the wanted section in a bit.

[jai_landrover]

Cheers twodoorsgaz

I just picked up a pair of std ones. I want to use std parts to keep parts available. As soon as they land I'll put them on the lathe to take out a mm maybe 1.5 so the early defender CV's will fit. Then it's a case of setting the CV so the joint is central in the sphere. Cooler balls are a lot smaller Dia and tho means the cv has to sit further inboard than it should do. This is easy done by making up new bushings for the CV but it does mean the shaft will not protrude as far as it would do normally. Again not too much of a problem I can take down the drive member (bearing lock nut clearance permitting).

If Kam are doing shafts that's great would certainly mean a cheaper solution.

Everything will need machining to get it to work however if I make a spare of everything I will have one on the shelf ready.

[jai_landrover]

Just to add I'm not going to use the railco bush as it will need shimming up to

Miss the CV bell and machining but I will most likely require a steering damper as fitted to

Some SIII. The cv will also need to be repositioned in the centre of the sphere because it's Dia is massive compared to a coiler swivel ball which in turn means it must sit further in to make the joint in its correct orientation. This is why I think the stage one is longer. I haven't measured yet but I think I can just make my own bronze bushes and machine drive members to make up the difference (bearing lock nut space dependant)

[twodoorgaz]

No worries - that's exactly the route I'm looking at too: standard or modified-standard parts.

The scalloping inside the V8 swivel was an eye opener. Going to take it and two new swivels to a machine shop to be matched.

Then need to have a few mill taken off a drive member to let me use AEU2522s.

Then need to find the nearest LR stub axle to a 109v8's. I suspect the hole in the swivel is matched to the stub axle, so by enlarging this to suit the new stub it should also be large enough for an AEU2522 to pass thru.

Then... Need to find the nearest swivel pin and railko and have them ground to match (to clear the CV).

Then.......... Need to check the bottom steering arms against a 4-cyl set to see how the pins compare.

All the above is subject to me having parts to compare - and on KAM to produce the half shafts, but satisfying nonetheless.

Who needs the da Vinci code?

[jai_landrover]

the stub axle I intend to use is early defender because firstly strength plus I wish to use early defender hubs 5 bolt drive members so I can run Rostyle rims without damaging the rims. The stub axle must be a good fit in the swivel housing and the 90 stub axle flange is a slightly larger diameter than the series flange so I have machined the flange down literally a very small amount to fit snugly in the series swivel housing. In above pics.

I have fitted the Early defender CV's through the series swivel housing just a. It's not a tight fit but it just goes through with a wiggle. I have tried this with the shaft on just to make sure.

[jai_landrover]

Chrome balls turned up today but getting stuff ready for Newbury so will have to wait until after the weekend

[Gazzar]

I wonder if santana stuff would work?

Look here for a santana parts dealer:

http://www.autoservicesperth.co.uk/santana-ps10-steering-knuckle-assembly-ps301021-p-683.html

G.

[jai_landrover]

Santana swivel housings if all other dimensions are of series origin would make for a cheap and easy disk brake setup should defender hubs and fiat/pug calipers work

[jai_landrover]

I actually have a Q regarding shafts probably for Nige who was it that sold HD shafts that we're golden in colour kind of anodised type coating? I seem to think they were really really old Kam but could be so wrong. I have had a pair of Salisbury rear ones before which were golden. I picked up one at Newbury sales rear golden in colour. A genuine sals def old rear long shaft and a short def old shaft.

Best buy goes to 24-23 spline short front bargain at £5!

Any info on the golden coated shaft appreciated. Will get in this conversion ASAP get the pub night out the way this evening and crack on swapping some tyres on the tyre machine tomorrow get these wee 205 onto some Rostyle rims.

[Soren Frimodt]

I actually have a Q regarding shafts probably for Nige who was it that sold HD shafts that we're golden in colour kind of anodised type coating? I seem to think they were really really old Kam but could be so wrong. I have had a pair of Salisbury rear ones before which were golden. I picked up one at Newbury sales rear golden in colour. A genuine sals def old rear long shaft and a short def old shaft.

Best buy goes to 24-23 spline short front bargain at £5!

Any info on the golden coated shaft appreciated. Will get in this conversion ASAP get the pub night out the way this evening and crack on swapping some tyres on the tyre machine tomorrow get these wee 205 onto some Rostyle rims.

The only golden shafts I've seen were from MaxiDrive back in the day, they also made an HD 10 spline, if ever there could be such a thing

[jai_landrover]

Cheers Soren

I know I saw some that were golden in coating marketed as HD but couldn't remember who. Some reason I thought Kam or early Ashcroft but this was some years ago

[jai_landrover]

A super quick look will give the swivel housing a good clean tomorrow evening. Drill out the broken bolt that holds on the seal retaining ring. I have a good serviceable pair of balls (oh err)! Hopefully by the end of the week we may have one side built up.

Removing the series IIA rear stubs n hubs and replacing them with late series III stubs and defender hubs so I can fit Rostyle rims to the back. Eventually when the front end is sorted the front can also run Rostyle rims but with spun centres. Until then spun disco rims will do. Painted a Rostyle rim ready to take some new 205 diamonds I picked up.

[Snagger]

I don't think that rear hub mood will make a difference - as far as I know, an I'm ready to be corrected, the only difference is the bearings (equal sizes on the post 1980, same brgs as Defender and RRC), the seal and corresponding seal land on the stub, and some of the early hubs had lubrication ports that were deleted on the SIII. I think the hub dimensions are the same, so you'll only get the Rostyles on with long studs and a thin (1/4" or so) spacer or by turning a bevel on the drive flanges.

As for the front axle shafts, would the right hand shaft from a coiler not work? The diff is dispaleced much further right on the coiler axles, so I think the length is about the same as on the SII and SIII. That just leaves the left (special) shaft and bearings/bushings to worry about.

[jai_landrover]

From hub out will all be defender and rostyles fit as std. Rear hubs I will be using on the rear may fit longer studs in front hubs for the front of use more rear drum brakes hubs. Front end defender cvs so the front is all good minus maybe a few mm where the cv needs to sit inboard of the larger chrome balls. If this pulls the half shaft inboard too much I can machine off a drive member to make the difference up. The only reason for the early 90/110 hubs on

The back is so the wheels fit as they are mighty tight to the drive members. The series item 6 bolt drive members and are usually round flanges. People used to Beat the centres out but it's a bodge. Even the older 6 lug type will foul the inside of the wheel rim as the wheel fits over the 5 lug drive members.

[jai_landrover]

As for the RH side shaft I'm pretty sure when I looked At it before I was certain I Could machine down a Kam type shaft with the longer sines although if you can buy stage 1 off the shelf now then that's the way to go especially

If they can be 300m

[Jamie_grieve]

Santana swivel housings if all other dimensions are of series origin would make for a cheap and easy disk brake setup should defender hubs and fiat/pug calipers work

For reference purposes I enclose a few pictures of a Santana front axle.

It is based on a series swivel but uses taper roller bearings instead of railko bushings but has the same four bolt fixing for the king pins. The swivel ball has series type bolt PCD rather than the coiler one.

The narrowest part of the front half shaft is between the CV and the splines for the drive flange, this measured 27.5mm.

(the rear half shafts are 31mm in a banjo version of the Salisbury).

Wheel bearings and all oil seals despite the Santana packaging are all identical to Land Rover as is the ten spline front diff.

To put the Santana swivel and hub assembly on a series you could use the half shafts from a stage one and bolt it together to a series axle or if you didn't mind it the coiler width which lets you use larger tyres just narrow the spring perches and bolt the whole axle on using the Santana U bolts and spring pads which are much stronger than Land Rover ones. You can also see the steering is much heavier duty too. The ten spline inner is of no consequence in my experience. They are high quality components and a lot of LR 24 spline stuff is of inferior quality in later years.

I doubt many will run out to find a Santana axle for this purpose but I think it's good to at least share.

I gave my Santana axles away partly because KAM couldn't sell me lockers for them and partly because I broke yet another leaf spring and changed the direction of my project. Great axles for a road vehicle but no advantages at all for an off roader I'd say.

[jai_landrover]

So Santana use 32 spline later inner cv??

I am using taper roller bearings top and bottom this means you haven't got to machine or weaken the railco bush because it sits in the ball too deep and fouls the defender CVs

Looks although I will need to machine special pins or make spacer washers I push the roller bearing out to make up the difference et wren the protruding railco bush. That's the next job as the bearings were put in yesterday ready to trial fit up

[jai_landrover]

PS the reason for the steering upgrade is the Santana has PAS and you can exert a lot of force through those steering arms. I'm a bit stuffed with axles needing to keep Drum brake system and not wanting to go wider axles. (wider axles mean wheel arches and all that and with some propsed new regs which may or may not come in, in the next few years could push me into a more modified class.

[Jamie_grieve]

You can put coiler width axles on with series wheels and it 'hardly fouls at all on the front but more importantly with coiler width doesn't rub on the inside of the rear tub. I cut the top of my wheel boxes out and got way better articulation available to me.

For the front, I just pulled hard at the 10 o'clock position (LH) and 2 o'clock position (RH) on my front wings to set them out a bit and they never rubbed with 900 x 16's on.

If you like the skinny look you could put some Austin Gipsy rims on which are identical to Land Rover except more inset. Arches just look wrong on a series in my humble opinion.

The PAS box on the Santana is a good unit, I would say they didn't upgrade so much as completely redesign the whole steering. It's way better than the current coiler setup and twice as strong. It's unbelievable how weedy Defender steering components still are. The Santana chassis rails are wider so the drag link needs shortened if fitting to a series.

[jai_landrover]

Hi Jamie,

Problem really lies with regulations. Or shoud I Say Possibility of regulation change.Axles must be series axles. The rules so far mean I can run anything but I am pre-empting any regulation change. I have a pair of Austin champ rims and the rear tub is non existent it has no inner tub its framework so its not going to be an issue. ALRC Regs limit to 33 inch tyres. I will run my spun disco rims on the 7.50 R16 diamonds on the front and rostyles rear. Eventually I will spin some rostyles for the front for the 7.50 diamonds. I have just started getting my 205 diamonds onto std rostyle rims for comp safari If I ever feel brave enough to comp the 80 inch with a Salisbury rear axle.

The idea behind the CV conversion for me is purley strength increase. granted the UJ is very strong however the dia of the 10 spline isn't going to cope well with team recovery and laying out CCV. Its not just for my series 1 80 but the mod will also be done to a bog std 88 inch which the regulations will affect. My 80 will be in the modified class nomatter what being PAS, V8 and all that gaff. Trying to get two Leafers to do Team recovery will take a few years to get sorted but good being the underdogs.

On my 90 I ran 900x16 for a few years doing the typical mods ring and pinions on the Salisbury rear axle and series ring and pinion on the diffs and transfer box making low box really nice and high box usable.

[jai_landrover]

I also have to make the Salisbury splined spider work so I can wind in the rear halfshafts and the rear end will be locked for Play and plays and Laying out/recovery at comps

The Disco Rims I have for the front of the 80 and the rostlyes for the rear.

I have actually ripped apart my Detroit locker clad Salisbury 4.7:1 coiler axle for the ends because I want 110 rear stubs and hubs. I had planned on fitting Series III rear stubs however I haven't got plenty of them spare and they need a special collar making or shim to make it work with Std parts. I did start to make however all parts need to be readily available the odd special part ok but when a std part would work it seems silly to make work and hassel for myself.

[ejparrott]

If you've got PAS then it probably won't matter, but fitting bearings instead of railco in a standard setup is a very bad idea

[jai_landrover]

Will need to run a steering damper 100% for road or comp safari. I don't believe you will get much damping from the taper roller bearings top and bottom. The other option is to run Series 1 tapered bushes but keeping spares generic and sourcing good arms would be an issue. Trying to find a spare part on a Sunday competing would be a nightmare I'm sure.

[jai_landrover]

Not the front end that's a job for tonight. Back end 90 drum brakes stubs and hub fitted one side. Only worry I had was maybe the position of the halfshaft wouldn't be engaged in the diff enough with the new drive member hub combo. Need any have worried felt it I and all good!!

Couldn't find the halfshaft for the life of me so checked the new wrapped one I got in LR wrap from Newbury and it's a sale rear right result!!!!

One side done other side to do!

[twodoorgaz]

OP here: just collected the engine, gearbox, front prop and transmission tunnel/seat base from a Stage 1 V8. Also picked up a set of 1980- 4cyl front stubs too.