discomikey Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Hi all. I'm looking into rearranging my cooling pack. deleting the air-air intercooler and replacing with a water-air intercooler which should hopefully be a bit more efficient at lower speeds. (you can tell by EGT's the intercooler doesn't do much below say, 50mph) I have a suitable radiator for cooling the water, and i have a question. While i know it is important to use a well designed shroud/ducting/cowling system and it is as important to let air out the engine bay at the back as it is to let it in at the front, I'm not sure of the best way to package the two radiators: Option 1: radiators basically sandwiched together. In my head this seems to be a plus for airflow, ensuring (Along with the correct ducting) air travels well through both/ However will this cause me problems in the mud? will it get tight between the 2 and block airflow? Option 2: Radiators positioned with an air gap between the two, and a suitable shroud made in order to ensure airflow through them both However there will be more airflow losses regardless. And would this be worse for mud? possibly allowing more mud to get on both radiators? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Not sure if I'm misunderstanding but if your cooling the water with air surely your just adding an extra energy conversion and reduced efficiency? Wouldn't a fan on your current system have a greater effect? Or is it your hoping to create a reservoir of cool water to give you a certain time of improved cooling before the water gets hot and needs a 50mph run to cool it? Or am I way off the mark with my understanding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted October 4, 2015 Author Share Posted October 4, 2015 You're pretty much spot on with the second point. I have available a radiator for cooling a 1.0 petrol engine all day long, it's not that big, but I am thinking of keeping a reservoir aswell so as the volume of water it has to try and heat up before I reach running speed will keep intake temperatures lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daslandroverman Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Surely a bigger or more efficient intercooler would be a better idea, or indeed give the current one a good clean out and see if that makes a difference. 50 mph sounds a rather high for the airflow through the thing to be making a difference. More surface area means cooler air? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 I would echo the comment about a bigger intercooler being better than the same area of water -air heat exchanger. Also, have you actually measured what the intercooler does? Saying from the EGT that the intercooler doesn't do much sounds a pretty short sighted conclusion if you ask me. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 I know you read the thread about 300 tdi intercooler removal, and my efforts to measure the intercooler temperatures. I suggest you do the same, before you start building your system. At least you than have a baseline to compare it with. There is alot of unknowns I found when it comes to diesel tuning, the bigger intercooler and adding more fuel mod works I presume, but noone I ever spoke with had a clue what the mods meant in terms of temp drop, increase in volume, reduction in cooling due to the radiotor being obscured etc. I know you like to do things proper, so don't be one of those. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoSS Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Air to water intercoolers can be more efficient (if sized correctly) as the conduction and heat transfer of water is much better than air. also they benefit from being closer to the intake usually with shorter pipe runs. The trick is keeping them cool from the associated radiator. In my set up i sat the IC radiator in front of the engine radiator with a gap and its own pull fan behind. It needs to be in front to avoid being pre-heated by the main radiator, and i wanted to keep a gap to minimize heat transfer from the engine radiator. The IC rad cooling fan can be set to switch on at a low temp e.g 30 deg. I've no real data on how this will work yet as i havent run it in anger. I would not worry about cowling between the rads. The function of cowling on a pull fan is to draw from the whole radiator. There is no benefit putting one in front of the main rad, and no benefit to the IC rad if it has its own fan. I need a prize for the number on times i just typed 'radiator' in one post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 You don't deserve the prize, you abbreviated to 'rad' too many times, no commitment to the cause! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 Thanks Hoss some useful food for thought there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanger Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Try water meth injection for lower egt's. A decent controller is triggered by boost pressure or egt. I run one in my track car and it made a 30 deg difference on the dyno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carloz Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 @ Wanger: Well... maybe nice for a track car, but better fuel up only with diesel or petrol (and maybe oil) for daily or off road use. I think in general: an air to air cooler (intercooler) is best suitable for road use and even beter for highway use (constant higher speeds). And off course a lot less complicated (if you can find space for the quite large intercooler pipes. The length is not a big problem, it is put on pressure in no time when you step on the pedal. an air to water cooler (chargecooler) is best suited for short bursts because it has a heat buffer in the form of the amount of cooling water. For off roading ths is the best option when you ask me. When the radiator is big enough it works well too on constant high power demands. Easier to place he radiator with 3/4"hoses. But a bit more complicated. The last option I is what I fancy for my RRC 100year project: Trusty 3,5 V8 with M90 Eaton supercharger, all is waiting for assembly :-S This would be a good positioning, I think: 1 2 3 4 / [ / [ / [ / [ / [ / [ / [ / [ 1 Louvres to prevent (direct) mud on the radiators and to promote easy cleaning 2 Chargecooler radiator 3 Louvres to prevent heat transfer from engine rad to chargecooler rad 4 Engine radiator #3 could be supplemented or replaced by a nice big fan which is controlled by chargecooler water temperature. Or the fan in front of #2 (maybe better for packaging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 i think water meth injection is a little OTT for this application. and like Carloz states, its keeping it cool under low speed short bursts of hard power (off road, spooling up to overtake, towing etc) that is the most important for me to try and keep cool. I don't have any issues with heat at all once up to cruising speed. I will be replacing the servicables in my engine aswell (injectors included) as i think its not running quite right at the moment. The injectors after all have completed over 250k miles, and quite a few hard miles too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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