gav- Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I know that this question has been asked a few times but I was hoping for a few more options I am looking for an engine gearbox combo for my next project which will be a coil sprung build, which will be 50% road and 50% off-road vehicle. As it will be fairly light I was thinking about a bmw m51 (as in p38) with its auto gearbox. However the gearbox needs a separate Ecu such as a compashift which I am not too keen on the expense. So are there any 2-2.5 l petrol or Diesel engines with gearbox that are modern fuel efficient engines that don't require bespoke Ecus? I was even thinking about the engine in the d40 Nissan Navada? By the way I was planing on using a remote lt230 for 4x4 if necessary so a standard car engine would work too! Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_grieve Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Why do you want a modern fuel efficient engine in a light vehicle for 50% off road?Pretty much any post 80's engine would fit the bill surely? All modern diesels are common rail and need ecu's. Older mechanical ones just need fuel and boost tweaked to get good power even if not quite VNT and common rail levels of power.The BMW engine and box aren't light, add the wheelbase you'll need to fit in a remote LT230 plus long enough props for solid axles to have reasonable travel and your over 100" wheelbase. If Independent then you'd be looking at centre mounted diffs and prop packaging problems. Would transverse engined work for you? If you want light, I'd suggest looking at not Land Rover derived although ave a look at that new Bowler thing for some ideas maybe.What kind of off road are you thinking? Rocks, mud etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gav- Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 What's the new bowler? I suppose it will be attending some trials events not likely yo be any comping I suppose I was thinking about an engine which had a standalone ecu, which footed the bill of being efficient and powerful ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daslandroverman Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 The M51 with EDC is pretty simple to get running on its own, whilst using bits from a P38 autobox which would attach to the engine, you can put an earlier ZF autobox with a hydraulic valve block onto one. An 'End Tuning' power chip in the ECU will see 180bhp and 260lb/ft, all with six cylinder silky smoothness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hangover Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Why not 300TDI, cheap to buy and easy to fix plus good economy when offroading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 From what I understand, the old 12J 2.5NAD is quite good in that application as it has high compression, so doesn't need the revs a Tdi needs to get the turbo spun up. With a propane injection system, that should do very well, and would be very easy to surce, very cheap, and the only non-standard part would be the propane system, so insurance and maintenance should be simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Just a thought... can you swap a P38 M51 bell housing onto a ZF HP22 as found in the Disco/RRC? Should be an easy one to do then, Ashcroft would be able to confirm, and certainly advise you on an easy way to do it. Not sure why you would choose an M51 as preference to a 300TDI though If lightweight is what you are after, thought about a Disoc MPI engine, or shock horror a V8? Rover V8s are around the 200KG mark when dressed, which is a lot lighter than a TDI... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 M57 better bet , upto 2001 with dde4 ecu easy to get to run in anything , same space requirement as V8 . r380 box bolts straight to it with p38 bell housing . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daslandroverman Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Just a thought... can you swap a P38 M51 bell housing onto a ZF HP22 as found in the Disco/RRC? Yes, you can, as I mentioned above. Not sure why you would choose an M51 as preference to a 300TDI though 180bhp and 260lb/ft with a chipped ECU compared to 130bhp and maybe 220lb/ft for a tweaked Tdi, and it's a six cylinder... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gav- Posted June 25, 2016 Author Share Posted June 25, 2016 Thanks for all the replies I am considering using the m51 engine from a p38 with either a manual gearbox or an automatic but with a compushift controller fitted. Is there a way of wiring up the m51 Ecu as a standalone unit without the becm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 You could use a non electronic auto box, in case you hadn't picked that up from the comments above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gav- Posted June 25, 2016 Author Share Posted June 25, 2016 Yes, sorry I had picked it up, I kinda thought I could buy a p38 as a base and use as much of it as possible ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Cool, just know Compushift is hardly cheap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daslandroverman Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 The basic EDC system on the M51 doesn't require that much to make it work, the BCM just gives the EDC controller the signals it needs for the engine to start and run. I believe the RAVE wiring diagrams for the P38 are a popular source of the information required to wire the EDC up, wether the engine came from a Range Rover, BMW or Vauxhall Omega. £250 or so will buy you a mechanical pump from the earlier M21 engine which is a fairly simple swop (again the RAVE manual is a good source of info) although the manual does require the use of special tools to do the job. As a source for an engine, you'll buy a Vauxhall Omega with an M51 along with another gearbox and bits to attach it to the engine a lot cheaper than a P38. They use a GM autobox of some description rather than the ZF used in the P38, and some of the BMW's that used that engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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