Bradshaw Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Hi Guys, I have a 1977 Series 3 - 109" = the problem is that turning right I have a better turn in than left. Is it adjustable?...the wheels & tyres are standard - actually the whole vehicle is pretty much stock from what I have read & seen. Tight left hand corner takes 3 manoeuvres to get around! Regards Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 You have just opened, in my view, the biggest can of worms ever. There are lots of people who will say do this, and do that, but most of them have NOT gone back to basics and set the whole system up from scratch. Either some people are very lucky, and their car has not been 'maladjusted' by a previous owner / mechanic, or there are a lot of weird vehicles around. For instance, yours when it was being driven by the Previous owner. Your vehicle appears to have a SIGNIFICANTLY larger turning circle in one direction, compared to the other. Just in the interests of collecting some baseline data, so you actually know how much improvement you have made, I suggest (ask) that you go to a big and almost deserted car park (supermarket?), possibly with a mate, and a couple of traffic cones, or fist sized stones, and measure the left and right turning circles. Why am I so cynical? Because I've been where you are now, and asked questions of the technical gurus on the Series 2 Club forum. I got a lot of response, but a lot of it turned out to be uninformed or ill-informed guff, and this seriously damaged my faith in their knowledge and expertise. It even got to the stage that I identified a fault in the official Series 2 Workshop manual, simply by asking basic questions, and having to calculate the answers myself. Unfortunately for you, while I've partly reassembled the car (S2A 109" Truck Cab) to 'my' interpretation of what is required, I haven't tested it, so I'm not going to give you proven answers. If it helps, my testing regime was to measure the steering wheel turns from the central position to full left lock and full right lock, while also measuring the front wheel to road spring clearances. Use the clearances at the rear of the front wheels, and adjust the ends stops so they play no part in the process, UNLESS the tyres actually touch the springs. If this happens then adjust the stops so the tyres at the rear of the wheel miss the springs by about a finger width. When both these parameters are equal, left & right, then I think you will have a working vehicle. I did this testing with the front axle on stands, so tyres off the ground. Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 There are stop bolts (or should be) fitted to the swivels - they are longer seal retaining bolt half way up the rear side of the outer swivel housing that hit a plate or elbow retained by the aft-most swivel hosing-to-axle bolt. These are adjustable and should be set to keep the tyre tread about 1-2" clear from the leaf spring. It is the back edge of the tyre you need to look at, not the front, when adjusting these due to how the wheel inside the direction of turn pivots more than the other wheel. If they are set, or the stop bolts won't reach the plates, then the steering rods and arms are mis-set, which is not uncommon where previous owners have replaced parts or fiddled without having the slightest bloody clue what they're doing. It's detailed in the manuals, but in essence, the arms on the top and bottom of the steering relay need to be 81 degrees apart, the lower lever pointing directly forwards with the road wheels straight. With that lot set, the steering box needs to be in the middle of its rotational range, and the only way to check is to disconnect the longitudinal rod (better would be to remove the drop arm from the box's spindle, but that can be very difficult) and count turns from lock to lock and set the midpoint before reconnecting. Obviously, the rods all need to be adjusted to suit the neutral arm positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Like said before, lift the front axle off the ground, put the axle on stands and start experimenting... It is actually quite common for the steering ralay arms to be fitted at a 90 degree angle when they shouldn't. Soak the various bolt before trying to undo them. Have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradshaw Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share Posted October 9, 2016 Wow! Thankyou so much....Ok I am gonna have to investigate further, but obviously something has not been correct as this morning I noticed that in the past the relay arms on the relay box have been welded to the splines, so there is something immediately to correct before trying any adjustment elsewhere! Fun of a 39 yr old Series 3 I would imagine...Had it 5 weeks & has had 2 head gaskets, head skimmed, vacuum pump fitted (Peugeot 405) & new water pump...none of which I knew I would need lol! Thanks for your advice guys, will come back to you no doubt regarding this once I have sorted the relay box Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 I'd be extremely wary of using it on the road with welded arms on the relay , the shaft is hardened and tempered and the weld could easily cause the end to break off Otherwise , as said by others go back to the basics and check it all starting by centring the steering box with the front end off the ground and go from there cheers Steveb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 I've owned 2 109's I believe the turning circle is a measly 38 feet :), Lock to lock should be controlled by the lock stops on the swivel housings, but the steering box will do that as well if the lock stops are missing or out of range. To check where the problem is you really need to disconnect the steering box from the rest of the system and count turns from one lock to the other and then centre the steering wheel in the straight ahead position. You then adjust everything else to match the straight ahead position and you then will have equal turns in either direction. Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 22 hours ago, Bradshaw said: Wow! Thankyou so much....Ok I am gonna have to investigate further, but obviously something has not been correct as this morning I noticed that in the past the relay arms on the relay box have been welded to the splines, so there is something immediately to correct before trying any adjustment elsewhere! Si Unfortunately, you evidently need a new steering relay and the two arms to go with it. This is exactly the sort of previous owner botch I was alluding to, though rather worse and more costly than I had in mind. Out of curiosity, what is the rough angle between the welded arms? (You still need to replace the lot, even if the angle is right, as the welding will have weakened the shaft like Steve said, and is most likely masking stripped splines on the arms). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradshaw Posted October 11, 2016 Author Share Posted October 11, 2016 Hi Snagger, Well roughly the angle looks 90 degrees - I am sourcing a new steering relay, but as I live in Malta finding a new one or decent used one that has not been butchered is going to be harder than I thought - probably easier to buy new from UK & have it shipped....all about money at the moment tho! Have a list (& parts) to replace - oil leaks, brakes etc...the forum is a great help to a newbie...so thanks again guys. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 The angle used to be 90 degrees, but LR changed it to 81. I don't know when that happened, but it suggests that 90 should work without too much of a difference in steering rate left and right. It certainly won't be the cause of your problems. With the wheels straight, where does the bottom relay arm point? Do you have a steering damper? If that has broken up inside or has been incorrectly fitted, then that can certainly cause such trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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