Hybrid_From_Hell

Hmmmmmmmmmm Bit of a toys from pram time ?...thread locked ?...well I'll post it here then for anyone who wants to read it ?? How do I know, ...........cos I tried to popst this : and it said so........ Its not as easy as many think. Les has some points here, which seem unanswered.....and no I am not intersted in any sort of stirring, ............but there are problems with this sort of thing......its not something that potentail do gooders or enthusiasts should do without extreme care....and this doesn't quite make me think the later..... 1. Your insurers, they may take a dim view of you doing this, and it may well invalidate your personal 4x4 insurance. 2. Qualifications, S&R goes wrong, sometimes horribly. What insurance have you to protect yourself ?...you shove someone who is injured in some way then have a prang / dmaage / accident / bounce hard and injure the individual worse, you are now liable, the courts would ask A.) who trained you ? B.) what qualifications have you ? C.) what pi cover have yopu that can be cliamed on ?...if you have none then you can be personally sued. D.) whose authority are you opertaing on, and what have you got to prove it ? E) if you doubt this look at the "Sue you Sir" ads on sky ? having a 4x4 and a keeness to help may well be a honourable sentiment, but in this litigous society be very veery very careful what you place yourselves into...you may find the proffesionals have a differing view as to what you can can't may and maynot do and also could have a series of questions that make you go "ahhh"... Thats why these ideas often fall in the early steps............... Nige

As the header says. I want to try to take the pressure from myself and entrants in having to organise this new 4th event planned & site booked for Feb 2006. I have 16 firm entries now, aiming for a full field of maybe 25-30, .............thats a load of paperwork, The best events go smoothly cos those who organise them well sort out all the bits bobs queries and glitches very early on..........then we can all plan and look forward to a great event As such I have produced a entry form, ........do this and you'll get me most of the info I need .............and it will be a real help, ...............it also gives you a certainty of being on the entry list ! Please PM me your e-mail, I will send out by e-mail, You can either submit it back to me completed electronically or by post, don't really mind either way NO MONEY AT THIS POINT, that will be next year, just starts the planning for proper of this event ! Nige

I Know who this is ........................Mr Brock... Thats cos I recognise my old hybrids snorkel top....no comments about how les can bend his fabrication (tube) and not my fabrication (top) Please...... That 'aint going to polish out is it ? Did the engine behave all day then Les ? Nige

Thats a fine idea, ............. .............'cept when your doing 80 in the fast lane.... and you hear a whine ........ ..........and then a 'popping noise' .... Nige

Todd, Re scrappied, I don't think unless you are very very lucky you'll find anything siutable....its unfortunately cheque book time ! The things to bear in mind are 1. Pin Pin (Front)....not many do these, all the long and posh shock tend to have loops in the endm, they can be converted but you are then lengthening the shocker without gaining any travel. 2. Loop Pin (rear) as with the front, but unlike the front only 1 pin to convert 3. Body vs compressed length vs extended length. I have a wad of data on shockers, leaving aside points 1 & 2 the other thing to consider is that not all (for example) 25" fully extended shockers are equal, for instance you could have a 25" shock with 10" travel and other with 12" etc etc, this will affect the calculations and some shocks when you look at the loops on it and the body of the shock the overall length etc the travel is actaully quite poor..... On mine I am now starting to cut up the wheel boxes, as the tyres are trying hard to come through, I hgave made up some attempts at "Guestimate" covers, once the hole is there I will be removing the spring and shoving the axle on full tilt (after I have made some modified rear mounts (mk 11 - mark 1s were a failure !) to see what needs to be removed. Yours is a route which will add articulation and at a minimal price (esp if as you you make the mounts ! - nice welds BTW)...what plans have you (or have you done) for the rear ? Nige

Gooooooooooooo On Its only Money Lovely bits of kit, but will clean you out fund wise on rebuilding ! Nige

Orange, You are correct, however I have found they need setting, there is a 10mm nut on the bottom of the cap, tighten until on fitting to the base part its as tight as practical, then grease up the O ring and all is ok I basically needed to test my Tig Weldied funnel..... so I fitted cap to funnel, turned upside down and filled with petrol, left overnight...it was all still there this morning ! Nige

ONLY 10 hours work Now passivated yellow goldy colour and also have still to make new covers as the turrets poke a bit into the engine area ! Hoping to find some glav inner wing so I can use as a template to make up the "Hats" to cobver them"......still playing suspension mods, rear is about to get some more movemt over this : If my (and trevss LR90) calcs are right should give another +2, oh and also am about to cut wheel boxes away to raise for opposite wheel to enter into rear loadspace.... Nige

Team 1 White 90 and Nick TangoMan Team 2 Trev LR90 and Adrian Turner ??? Team 3. Will W and Si White Team 4. Tonk & Perv Team 5. Paul W and Jim Marsden Team 6 Simon R & ??? Team 7. JST & Mike Team 8. "Team Anonimouse" (don't ask won't say so Neeer Neer neer nerr so there ) Team 9. The "Antil Mob" Team 10. Julian/Dave TBA (friends of TC) take the last place for a while SORRY - ANY ADDITIONAL ENTRIES ARE NOW TBA, ALL THE ABOVE HAVE FIRM RESERVATIONS. THERE WILL NOW BE A GAP WHILST THE CLUB AND OTHERS HAVE OPTIONS FOR THE REMAINING 11 PLACES FOR THIS EVENT (30 TEAMS TOTAL)...AND I WILL POST IN ABOUT 1 MONTHS TIME DETAILS, PM ME WITH ANY QUERIES AND OR TWAEAKS ETC WITH MISSING 2ND 4X4S ETC Nige

Tuko, I've been at this now for some time.. I can see your logic, ie if I lowwer the shock mounts then I'll get extra droop, and the shock will still be ok for the upward movement....and you are right. However, have you considered raising the shock mount ? before you think I am completely mad heres my logic If you did what you have done, then your using the std shock, and gaining droop, but if you fiotted a longer shock, say +2 then you won't need to drop the mount hieight....fit an even longer shock, and you'll get even more droop etc... The balancing act is the really long shocks have longer bodies, so to compensate RAISE the turret. This way you can get a huge increase in downward movement by fitting a much longer shock, upward is still ok but raise the tower so the shock doesn't implode on itself..... So far my homemade MK11 turrets and very long shocks look like this : You still have to get the jockey radius arms and axle to flex with the much much longer shocks, but thats another story............. Just a thought, this way you'll have more than +2 Nige

Hi all, When I found out that the 90s tank was leaking (Oh deepest joy -it does low enough MPG as it is ) I also decided to take the opportunity to convert the appalling petrol cap to something that would allow the fuel to stay as fuel, and not have it 'joined' by muddy water, which could be so easily done, the cap is not high up at all.... The 90s tank cap I had was the early one, like a series 'domed cap' with a bayonet type fitting to the filler, with what can only be described as a drill hole in the center of the cap, .....not very clever for any wading, and as the 90s cap is quite low, not difficult to shove in the gooo..the later caps are similar, .....bit better but still rubbish IMHO. Hopefully this will give you some ideas... 1st having fitted new tank (what a PITFA job that is ) I took the opportunity to remove all the filler, pipework and hoses etc, The some work and filling later saw this fiited in its place...., it came from "Think Automotice" at Isleworth, .... Yes I know....bit bling but a beautifully made peice of kit.....and this is a 'non vented' unit. This comes in 2 parts, a 'non vented cap', (either locking or non locking - I chose locking), and a mount, the one which is known a 'FUN2' would be 2.25 inch same as the filler neck on a later 90 hose, mine being an early type had a 3" neck, so I lathed up an adapter, and tig welded it to the connector. All fitted it now looks now like this... Now...... as the std cap is vented (read drilled hole at factory FFS.....), I had to make up a unit to allow : 1. Fuel vapour to exit on filling tank (the small 1/2 pipe top of the tank, and 2. also a venting system as cap and therefore system non vented This was achived by this, ..............a piece of 2.25 inch tube, with a 3/8 Hyd hose connector cut of and welded on (my gas welding is not that good, lack of practise so don't start !), and similar for the fuel hose to tank from a 1/2 Hyd connector, .................all welded togther gives this : Then all I did was take the std hose, cut in the right place and add the unit I had made, then drilled a hole up through the wheel box fit grommet and shove some pipe down through it and connect to the unit, at the cab end I fiited a TRV (think autonmotive) Roll Over Valve, and then dropped some 3/8 clear hose back down through the wheel box (another grommet) and vented the fuel vapours into as handy chassis hole. Then I conected the 1/2 hose to the unit and tank, these 2 pics just about show how it then look jubilee clipped up : AS I said a "Mini- Tech" type of article, but so useful to have a Fuel cap that is 100% waterproof as opposed to the factory junk...thought it might be of interest? Nige

Club got a web site ???? Any members fancy a Winch Challenege ? (See pinned post top this section) Nige

AS Jon W about V8s and water, He has tried LOADS of tweaks, some have been igenoiyus and have taken hours, problem though for him is if his V8 goes anywhere off road where 2 mice are ahving a water pistiol fight his will stop instantly. We are both pursing a range of whizzy options, so expect some posts on this much later on... In the meantime many have said and I would agree : 1. Do NOT use pattern caps, use a genuine Lucas 2. Same for Rotor Arm 3. Protect 3.9 amp on dizzy - fit remote kit 4. Fit Bosch Coil 5. Fit genuine leads, or better still Magncor 6. Do NOT use Champion Plugs, use NGKs 7. Shield over Cap either fizzy bottle of flash effort, but something 8. Get ECU up hig, or out of harms way or boxed 9. If you can remove viscous fan, replace electrics then switch off when in water so fan doesn't spray everywhere 10. On 3.5 Flapper systems, seal or protect resistor pack (silver box 1.5 x 4 inches) esp where plug goes in 11. Carry Giant WD40 tin at all times Nige

Kin Hdell. thats a mess, and one lucky bunny driver.......... Nige

Looks really good, but if your going to do a proper job, take that electric winch off the front and shove a nice hydrailc on, pipework will be easy turn Little landy upside down Nige

Fitting a MileMarker PTO driven to the Rear of a 90. Evening Forumeers...... story of a winch fit from hell……….. After 3 days work the 90 actually has a rear winch sort of test fitted, but needs to have some more fabrication & welding and then be plumbed in... so Part A of the joys of making a MM fit the back of My 90........... This then is a guide full of the U turns problems and sheer “Joys” that I have had, read this and if you do this to yours it will be a load easier ! I ACTUALLY had a week off from work, Plan was (is) to fit a 2nd hand Mile Marker I've Bought to the rear, then plumb up and run from the gearbox driven PTO and 40 litre tank already in it, and link to it sharing the tank etc and the PTO….for a MileMarker a PTO conversion will give it max power and 'real' speed.... 1st was to get it fitted.... Much thinking around this gave me ‘Plan A’, (didn’t work long term)….Some work saw a 6mm folded plate containing my sh Mile Marker and then plan was to fit between rear chassis rails and have either welded or pref bolted into place etc etc etc...... Much beer and thought gave me, a load of work that really wasn’t that neat, its one of the sheer joys of fabrication !!!!!!!!!!!, so I then moved on to : Plan B, take a basically copied unwelded southdown guard, modify the absolute hell out of it by incorporating the MM mounts, and then have a guard and with some extra work a guard which could have a decent trailer tow hitch bolted into captive fittings, this would be mega strong, guard the back end from damage and give me a winch which should fit into the space at the back end of the 90, without cutting into the rear cross member OR being any higher than the load floor, this then means a winch without the drawbacks of the ones many have. Having thought this through, I was sure it could be done, in addition my longer term plan was to modify the MileMarker so that the free spool could be operated by means of an air clutch from the drivers seat, if I could do this then I could free spool, and winch in and out without either leaving the drivers seat or even opening the rear door ! With the standard rectangle cut for the winch throat, the plate was made and modded and then cardboard templates made into 6mm plate (ta Tonk for off cuts ), and then tacked, tested for fit and then welded up.... Not a straightforward jobbie, especially as the liner had to be changed (melted it with 220 amps flat out 10mm + 6mm plate welding, replaced cooker fuses, compressor fuses plasma fuses, space heater packed up, killed my cordless drill (smoked big time then bin..., band saw blade broke you know how things are sometimes ..... I was DETERMINED to carry on, and as a result I now have this : The basic tray has huge (HUGE) 6mm pillars to basically have the MM bolted into ........4 bolts on front and 2 from underneath, I still have to make the side ears for the final extra strength, remember this is driven from a Gearbox PTO pump system, ........it is REALLY going to pull ! Now, the other thing I have tried to do is leave my entire cross member intact, no letter box etc... The cable is going to run between the top flat face of the crossmember and the bottom surface of the floor,.... this will be through a tubular hawse fairleads, on the rear cross member.... it will be very very very tight The way this is done is think of the winch mounted of the front, the cable is pulled via rotation of the drum from the bottom and onto the drum, think of the winch still connected at the front,….. but with the cable coming out of the back,…….. the cable still goes on the drum with the same rotation but the cable is now at the top... yippee, just reduced the height problem !…if I don’t do this the winch will intrude into the load space to have the rope above the top of the crossmember….. This is what I am planning on the rear MM fitting, ....problem is strength .....as the pressures on the mount will now be higher then normal, hence the massive construction of what is in effect the rear winch bumper....... now mounted and bolted in place... and with MM bolted in photo looking down from top I have made it so it is a flush fit onto the rear of the rear crossmember to give extra strength and stop flexing of the 'towers'....probably stand a small nuclear explosion soon ! and here is the High positioned narrow wire entry box, you can just see the top on the drum, i.e. the ropes lowest point will be just above the top of the rear crossmember... next is to do is finish off the 2x 'side ears', and then make up the fairleads, then plumb into the existing PTO system (that will be fun)..... Er yeah, as it says, thought this would have been done by now, but Nooo still at it ; So, have now made the complete unit to house the PTO driven rear MM : This houses the main unit, with all the steel work holding the MM in Place, ....just above the top of the rear cross member, as you can see side panels have 'grown' onto it and these have also 'returns' welded to the top for extra strength, all is sea welded everywhere !... 6mm and 5mm plate everywhere ! …Top across the winch is 10mm, and the bolt heads are flush with the bottom of the floor cover... MM Pump has been rotated so as to have pipes in a better position, ............and so floor remains 'flat' : just undo the 2 bolts and turn to the 2 taped holes and rebolt up !…handy Close up of LHS wing strengther : This is the view from the top of the crossmember, the idea was to have a rear winch without destroying the rear cross member, keeping the recovery point centre of the rear cross member and a simple drop plate for towing etc : So, some 3 days solid fabrication, ....and a number of bolts (3x in shear each side = total 6, plus 3x bottom of cross member (9) also in shear x3, )12)and 2x huge M18 in tension) (14) and 2x top (16) should hold it all in place............ The rear cross member stays unmodified, ....... the winch has x8 bolts holding it in place (2x through bottom, 4 front and 2x top) and the whole unit is a 'press fit' up against the back rear cross member, .......... loads of gussets and strengtheners mean this should stay put : 'All' that now left ( HAHAHAHAHAHAHA) is to make up pipes and connectors etc and plumb up to PTO pump tank etc, and the pipework, and solenoids etc, and maybe a few drain holes to the plate before having it passivated JUST TAKES SO LONG , I NEVER learn re time for fabrication, but am so far quite pleased with results........ Some weeks later……………………….. I can never seem to learn how long mods and fabrication seems to take... Anyway, one reason for the delay in finishing and having the Rear MileMarker working is this below : The "Clue" is the grey tube thingy sticking out of the Hydraulic Winch.... are the 2 pipes running along the top of the front wing... Yes, I have nicked (no nicer way of saying it !) Pauls idea of Air Operated Freespool(s), and started with the front, tends to slow down work on the rear MileMarker this needed a bit of 'modification' and machining to make fit / work, ..........but it does. I already had the ARB compressor, so with a few T pieces extra solenoids and pipework and wiring switches and panel work I had the front done, ...the 'cubby box' between the seats EVENTUALLY was decided upon as where to have the pair of switches, much chopping about and reducing the front of it, making up bits of wood, gluing in, recutting the black trim to refit smaller cubby box, and still being able to access the winch control ports (Lift up flap and screw in levers) oh and 2 plates were made up for 2x IP 67 switches with little pictures of a front and a rear winch, just to have the 'bling' factor complete these were engraved....gave me this... Yoooow checkitout....yes sad I know and as you can see one says 'front' and one says 'back'.... and heres the back,......... this shows the mounted MileMarker complete with Air solenoid and a bit of fabrication to hold plus 2 pipes one in and a vent. Working out the power required resulted in me working out PSI to BAR to NM to things I have never heard of, a fishing spring told me 25 lbs pull was needed to operate the free spool, and eventually I had something that I had worked out should do it.... so armed with a part number of to the 'air solenoid shop' .......... " Er 1 of these please"........... It was Sooooooooooo small I laughed, about the size of 2 boxes of matches, I said "Nah give me something say 3x bigger"./.. Go home connected up vice, solenoid, arb, fishing spring and other vice and pressed button. Result. Spring exploded as it was ripped apart, 2nd vice moved towards 1st, and went back, shuffed feet picked up original small thing laughed, and drove home picking up new fishing spring weight on the way Should learn to trust background work I do ! New assemble produced 30 lbs pull nicely, that will do, and bracket made to carry and shimmed for 8.5mm pull not 10mm which air Solenoid does, means I am not hitting the "Stop" on the MM but it does work and fully disengage and engage... The Mile Marker has a low box and a high box, the high box is purely for winching back in the cable when you have finished, I don't / won't need this as it is PTO driven, and in normal MM winching the winch is set to low and free spool for the high lever. This (on the far RHS) has been modded the lever removed so the high box is ALWAYS in free spool, see little collar built to replace lever, the LOW lever has the air solenoid on it so that I can disengage and reengage the MM from the seat. This will means that I can cover the winch up, and plans are to have it so that it can be operated without even opening the rear door It can have the freewheel engaged from the drivers / passengers seat, reengaged, and also a switch will be going in soon to have in / out function at the driver seat, plus a wander lead plug should I want high up on the rear body.. This then moves me to the rest of what I have been doing for WEEKS...hydraulic plumbing.. Basically the MM has be upgraded to 1/2 BSP from 3/8, with much messing about, a Pressure relief valve has had to go in as the PTO and front winch PRV run far higher pressures than the MM (front 2775PSI rear MM 1750PSI), and so the plumbing has turned into a nightmare,... EVENTUALLY I decided on where to have the hoses, part of this was I want all High Pressure hoses underneath LR and no anywhere near me, but after a huge amount of time trouble and work fitting it didn’t work properly, this was due to me using a PTO and the MM solenoid and switch gear too small, I need big pipework to handle the flow, and no restrictions, happy I was not…………… Why ?…….Well pipework plumbed in and solenoids of the MM from Alfred Murray connected etc I engaged the drive, ....and pressed the remote control unit... There was a strange "Groan" from the pump, ....and I could hear the PRV (pressure relief valve) dumping fluid like billio into the tank,...... the winch did rotate but slowly .............(steady all you MM knockers )...... and then I stopped the unit, ....and then engaged reverse. There was an even bigger groan, ........and the pipes looked as tho they were trying to tear themselves from the bodywork...and again it turned slowly and made horrible noises, ...........PRV valve was going nuts..... something was not right I read books, info, and MM USA e-mails and then the penny dropped..... I was shoving (or trying to) a HUGE amount of fluid and pressure into the MM system, although I had "Upgraded" the MM winch to run 1/2 BSP stuff the internal bore of the MM control block was causing a huge 'jam' in the system, and as such it was never going to work..... Secondly there was little I could do re this as the H14W control block I had (with 2 ports) had 1 stick with a "In neutral rev" stick, and the second was only a On / Off control for a pump switching on and off, I therefore needed all the MM stuff to 'engage' the winch in either the 'in' or 'rev' settings....ARRRRGGHHHHHH Tony Cordell’s post about 8274 vs Hydraulic vs PTO mechanical etc rang bells for me…….., I have another reason why TC may be right with his chosen route of 8274 and huge motor.............. 5++++++++ MONTHS WORK ! so far……….. It NOW works…Er, but not without a few "Challenges" (read PITFA problems ) Much thought and midnight oil later saw me with this : This is a brand new '2 port' 'On Neutral Rev' switches x 2..and had to drill and make new holes for it to locate to the base mount plate for the raised centre console unit : The RHS side works the front winch, the LHS the rear..... This replaced the H14W control spool block, which only had the 1 'In neutral Rev' and 'On Off' option …..This meant a complete re plumb of what I had done hence why it all vanished ! The other problem was PRV pressured between the system (front runs at 3000 psi .....MM likes max of 1750 PSI..... and flow rates ....and what would happen if the pipes burst ???... (i.e. lowering down hill and pipe goes weight of 90 overcomes internal resistance ..... BANG as I hit the bottom : answer : Over centre valve plumbed in so that PRV also dumps back to tank on over pressure and MM locks solid if pipe bursts... But nothing is this easy : the unit is a completely differing size shape to the old one, so had the re make all the mountings, once done here it is bolted up : and then some while later heres the cubby box back in along with both the rear and front 'air operated' free spool solenoids, and some 'bent levers' that allow full movement.......... So The Million Dollar Qs:........................... How fast is it ?....................... ………………was it worth it ? Well, Jon White came around to do some bits to his LR, On a demo he said "Quote" "Kin hell - that’s is quick !!!!!!!!!!!" …….I asked for him to time the unit in action,..... We spooled on some wire to see what it did, ........... 3rd gear at 1000 RPM...................... the MM produced a spool on speed of : "Ta Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" Around 20 feet per min ...this could be increased moving to 4th or 5th, reduced if 1 2nd gear...all at tick over !!!!!!!!!!!!! ……….Basically its B Quick,.... and bear in mind this sort of winch does 20 feet per min ....on either respooling (no load) .....or max pull, .....its all the same... Going to get a sticker done : "Its a MileMarker Jim - But Not as we Know It !" Basically its fast.....compare winch speeds with any electric under load, .....and 20++ foot per min is QUICK ! All I needed now is finish was the SS Rear Fairlead and fit, finish the bolt on tow bar system, drill a few drain holes, get it passivated, fit the Plasma, It has taken a ludicrous amount of time, it has driven me insane, I have had to learn about loads of things I had no knowledge of prior to this, it has had me close to screaming point and this is just a few of the many reasons I would say electric has an advantage.. fitted without any of this nonsense.... However it may just be worth it, I have to finish it and try it in anger, if it is half as good as I think it may be then I guess I'll be happy..... STUPID amount of time tho from start to finish, never underestimate the grief / Cost / nightmare of this sort of project ..............Like I ALWAYS do .............. Nige

eh ? Whats that yer say ?? .....squeak up could you , Nige PS : [whisper mode on] your brackets are showing dear [/off]

Done ! Team 1 White 90 and Nick TangoMan Team 2 Trev LR90 and Adrian Turner ??? Team 3. Will W and Si White Team 4. Tonk & Perv Team 5. Paul W and Jim Marsden Team 6 Simon R & ??? Team 7. JST & Mike Team 8. "Team Anonimouse" (don't ask won't say so Neeer Neer neer nerr so there ) Team 9. The "Antil Mob" Team 10. ATTENTION : Last team place !!..when this has gone that will be it, no more Available for a while Plus I have another firm 8 teams so far, bring field to 19 teams, and the ad hasn't come out in the HBRO mag yet Nige

DEFINATELY going, its ALWAYS worth it, and its the only show thingy I bother with.... Have no idea what sort of "Joys of Pre-loved Parts" will come home with me, ..............but probably not the ones I'm looking for.... I'll be there, wouldn't miss it for the world... Nige

16th, you mean this weekend ? Kin H*ll, theres nothing like advance notice............. .......and thats nothing like it !............... can you maybe give us poor "under the thumbs" some notice of next events ? Then I can get me card stamped with the "permission to go out and play" stamp Nige

erm........... I really am begining to loose the will to live over this one........... Can we PLEASE move on, its just one of those things, hopefully everyone will be a bit the wiser and thing of the consequences of their actions, life is not easily pigeoned holed for every situation, Les did what he did for the reasons he did, he has the backing of this forum as he and others did what they did or we would not be here enjoying LRA now... Nick did what he did, maybe he feels different now maybe he doesn't bit others will see the logic and the message as to in some way the linmits of "reasonableness".... can we PLEASE now put this to bed.................................................... PLEASE.......... Nige

and the date is ? Nige

Grammar Tonk, Grammar........ should read "atleast i drive hard enough to break a selection of everythings regularly" Tsk Tsk Nige

Nige

.....and its one of the few "Tonk Proof" parts too B) Hyd U/Js next ? Nige