De Ranged

Haven't really done much on this been building a trailer for it... fame is all done just got to build some shouldered 22mm bolts for the springs to shackles and I'll be able to drop it onto its wheels But on a positive note I got some profiles last week took a wee while for them to get to me lol a little mix up with dispatch at steel n tube.... got them just before I flew home for the weekend, a real tease Got two rings drilled and tapped lol getting over doing this by hand... no drill press so just a battery drill and a hand tap 2hrs to do a ring! Hopefully have them done next week then I decide if I still galv them

About the only one that might allow them would be the mainland winch challenge in outlaw class.... the rule set I'm planning too, don't think anyone has talked about building any yet so there is nothing in the rules lol And no IFS solid axles wouldn't be against any of the rules but here is my reasoning why I'm not going down this path.... yet lol 1st... I have one of my porn axles sitting there doing nothing so I only need to build another for the rear lol 2nd... these have a competitive edge over others running small axles (hilux) and a massive advantage over those running safari axle... remember if I'm down the line and they are dragging axles I'm not! if I'm first and dragging axles or diffs then its still going to happen for those behind me 3rd... weight and performance.... this build is going to be light weight (lots of alloy, doors, links, skins as much as I can... also why I chose this motor 164kg wet weight!) now part of making your suspension work is the springs push the axles into the ground to keep the tyres in contact now the body has to resist the mass of the axles and force them into the ground (why beam axles are carp for race cars and why the move to independent suspension in Ultra4 you might think this is silly thinking for a truck with a top speed of probably 70km/hr but think about how many times you've wanted a short hard acceleration to clear something.... the more the wheels bounce the less speed I will achieve and the less speed I have when I hit Now if I was to go to the IFS solid axle the housing has to be bigger and heavier, remember you have to have access to the CV's for manintance you can't build something like a normal tube axle you also have all the extra weight of a bigger diff nugget and CV's..... So it boils down to is the ground clearance gain worth the losses and at this stage no Oh and lets not forget I already have one cool axle already so its less I need to build lol

When the first bunch hit I was home, the dog went nuts and that plus the banging woke the miss's she thought there was someone in the house so woke me in a panic lol I was half way down the stairs fist balled before I realised there was an earthquake.... it rolled on for at least a min, good enough the light fittings hanging in the lounge had a 90 degree swing! in the morning I had a look around other than a couple of books down it was all good that said we are were 600km from the closest big one in a new steel framed house and it is preped for this... things are strapped and screwed to the walls so they can't fall over That is a drain snake I have one on our Hydro excavator at work that is 22L a min at 4500 psi.... we drag ours back running, I've never seen one that small before that would be just the ticket for cleaning a chassis As for mine I cleaned the soil etc and the scale rust out when I did the rust repairs... I also used a length of wire with a looped end that I spun on the end of a drill it flails away inside the chassis to dislodge dirt underseal and scale rust then I put the air line in to blow it all out I'm planing on continuously applying the metal ready for about three times the normal application time, the phosphoric acid in there will remove all the rust and give a good etch for the POR then I'll coat it with waxoil

Not yet.... I have been considering it, competition rules here ban portals, most of the serious rigs go the opposite way, Nissan safari axles and work on the idea of bash your way through I don't like this approach, because the extra weight means you need extra suspended weight to counter it with the suspension or the axles bounce and don't track the ground.... I like light weight and good throttle response so a solid axle that is clearanced is lighter than a IFS cranked solid axle and I still have a performance gain over the rest because I don't get hung up on the axles All that said.... If I do I'll use Mitzy Pajero (think they are a shogun in your neck of the woods) they have a 9" diff nugget and some of the strongest CV's on an IFS setup and they are common..... but if I was to get creative I think I'd look at a custom ford 9" setup and go full independent love the new stuff in Ultra4

A wee update had a bit of a slow weekend home.... as in I didn't achieve much lol my shed time was pretty much taken up with cleaning and helping a mate do the rear wheel bearings on his truck but I did locate the spare diff pumpkin I made a few yrs back and mounted it up on the mill so I can machine the axle tube holes This sort of thing is why I still have this inaccurate dog... she can be moved to do silly stuff like this Oh in case you have no idea this is an offset diamond style diff pumpkin and I'm boring out the ends of the pumpkin where the welded bit stuck over so I can press fit the axle tubes in through the bored end to locate into the 10mm plate you can see in the top (then fully weld the tubes to the pumpkin) The end result is an axle running hilux/cruiser internals with 3/4" more clearance under the axle tubes and between 1-2"s more clearance around the diff pumpkin, roughly 75mm wider and a bucket load stronger than a standard hilux axle housing... oh and setup with the diff on the wrong side so I can use it as a rear steer axle Hopefully finish it in a few weeks

I would recommend the marine clean, its surprising how much oil and grease a surface can pick up even when your carefull.... its a good general purpose cleaner too As for letting a little surface rust start before applying I agree with this and have let my camper chassis rust for that reason.... I'm also treating the inside of the rails as well, I'm planning on using the nozzle from my underseal gun on a length of hose and a couple of bits of bent wire to hold the nozzle sort of centered in the rail and drag it through.... its the same trick I plan on useing for Waxoil after the POR15 has dried, now this is an educated guess as to it working lol this stuff doesn't like to be thinned for spraying so this is my answer... if anybody has a go at this before I get to mine let me know how it goes

I'm a firm believer in POR15 especially for chassis work A couple of things that stand out and also reasons why people have bad results You HAVE to do the three step process, Marine Clean, Metal Ready and then the POR15, this is the reason most fail they think its a paint and miss the chemical reaction required from the Metal Ready As stated it REQUIRES rust for the phosphoric acid in the metal ready to chemically convert into a keying agent for the paint, you remove the rust it wont work lol It doesn't work over painted surfaces! they have a special keying primer paint that you have to use and last I read even in there prep sheets they warned it will not perform to its abilities this way The main reason it fails is user error lol they don't read the spec sheets and follow, that said there is one other reason POR15 can fail and that is if it is applied when there is too much moisture in the air, it can cause the paint to dry to fast and not bond to the surface Now why it rocks and also why I'm letting my camper chassis rust so I can use this to its best ..... Normal paints use a spirit as a carrier agent something that has to evaporate for the paint to dry this leaves microscopic pores in the paint surface this very slowly allows water in (why you want more than one layer of paint) and why normal paint will soften on exposure to water. Normal paints also need a mechanical key to hold too (your sanding marks) POR15 on the other hand is a chemical reaction on exposure to the moisture in air (why you can't keep the stuff after you have opened the can.... will turn hard) so when the finished painted surface is wet it doesn't soften like normal paint.. so is alot tougher and chip resistant when under a truck It also has a chemical bonding process to the converted rust from the metal ready that holds onto the metal better than normal paint (Utube it, there are plenty of clips painted bits of steel being bent and paint not lifting) Yrs ago I painted up an axle on one of my trucks to compare POR15, Chassis Black (generic commercial truck chassis paint) Hammerite and underseal over normal enamel After one run where we bush bashed a couple of old tracks that were overgrown with Toi toi and tussic grass (up to a meter high dense fiberous grass) the only band not showing wear other than rub marks.... was the POR15, the underseal was gone from the base and front of the axle and enamel was worn to the point the steel was showing through, the chassis paint was better but the leading edge was showing metal, the Hammerite had chipped mainly on its edges but held up Oh and somebody mentioned the rust blowing out under the POR15.... I think the reason this doesn't happen is the curing process uses the moisture in the rust to cure the paint, i've painted old agricultural equipment with it over top of fingernail sized scale rust 10yrs later no rust had come through.... the POR15 had turned grey lol caused by sunlight and they warn repeatedly in the spec sheets about this when exposed to direct sunlight it needs to be coated over with another product

Hmmm will have to do a bit of research.... now I'm in a main centre I should be able to reliably get different grades so about time I learned a bit more about the different alloys and the grades

Sorry long hrs and limited sleep due to ongoing pain that has been bad enough to sit me in A&E till 3:30am one morning (still went to work the next day lol) but anyway my head hasn't really been there... why I haven't replied till now one bad statement is enough lol A short IC on short travel isn't an issue, on long travel it means as the suspension cycles the axle needs to go forward/back this can cause some lock out of the suspension on high speed impacts.... don't stress your IC is low enough this wont happen.... I didn't pay enough attention when I made the comment There is another side effect of a short IC and that is diff roll is increased, I have run your links in CAD assuming you run 5" up and down travel and 1" of bump stop or jounce.... at drop you'll rotate your pinion down (clockwise sideways as per calculator) 3 degrees on the end of bump stop 6" up travel you will rotate pinion up by about 8 degree's Estimating placement of transfer case drive flange near to the chassis mount for your lower link that gives you a Drive shaft plunge of slightly more than 3/4" and a total drive shaft angle change of 28 degree's, not certain on the rover UJ's but thats workable numbers for hilux stuff on a standard slip joint Oh and just on a side note the roll axis angle is nice angling up at the rear this means the front is slightly more responsive than the rear giving you a little bit of under steer slowing the steering a bit (a good thing on a lifted truck)

Sorry about taking my time to answer this.... been pulling some long hrs with work and its hard to find the motivation to think at night, and a bit of an issue with back pain and sleep lol, but I've had a day off to sleep so I'd be happy with the AD%, the short instant centre is a bit of a concern... give me your shock travel measurement and I'll work out you pinion angle change as it cycles

Whats your ratio inner hole to outer dimple bend ? my issue might be due to the large sides...... I'm not the flashest on alloy grades again it boils down the local supply being limited and one of the local suppliers I was using didn't seem to give a F about what I asked for all he bothered with was the thickness lol one time I got a sheet of roof flashing grade (thats its tech name lol) when I specified a grade similar to what landrover pannels are built from (can't remember the spec sorry)..... The new Landy Toy is going to get alot of alloy work on it any suggestion on grades to play with for things like door frames and semi structural stuff that will form well with the dies as I plan on building some of Simons return lip dimples for this

Lol that be the one..... still got them on the list to build

I've made a few sets over the yrs a couple of things I've learned Making them, set the gap for 3mm ... this allows you to use them on any gauge under this without issue and I've gotten resumble results with 4mm plate in them (I have a home made 60 ton press lol) The biggest thing that people seem to go off on with them is they must be made from the hardest heat treated last forever steel lol yea if you must, but they work equally as well out of mild bar stock... my first ones (smallest and largest) are made from mild bar stock and I crush them to failure in my press every time and there is no wear and I use them alot in some projects lol I can't remember where it was (may have been here) but a smart cookie ran some FEA on different shapes for the die's and the strongest result was a dimple die form that has a return lip on the inside of the hole.... so in profile flat then the rise for the dimple and then a flat then the hole Another thing to consider is strength or weight.... I have a set my most used that has a 2-1 ratio on a 45 degree angle (so 25mm hole has a 50mm dimple formed on a 45 degree angle) these are more about strength than weight saving and I only use them on mild steel sheet, found I get small cracks on alloy 45 degrees is too much for alloy found this prefers 30 degree's and I don't get 4130 plate over here lol that stuff is unibtaniam I think the dimples with the returns I mentioned above were 1.5 - 1 with a 30 degree angle ..... been planing to make a set of these Last when you make em, put a big shoulder on them down on the flat the bigger this is the less the sheet will distort from pressing the dimples

Yes you are right but the bit so many people forget is when your decending your going slow, the steeper it is the slower your going.... next as you tilt the truck on its nose the links carry more and more of the weight instead of the springs which means your front end lifts, and so does the CoG (as the suspended weight goes from the springs to the links the springs will push the body out, both front and rear will do this so it is the same effect as discussed about rollcenter triangle and all except the base is wheel base instead of wheel track) So to me having more jacking effect from AD doesn't gain anything, that said the lowest setup I've been involved with was still around %50 (CoG was an estimate so not a reliable figure) and that was acceptable, driver didn't notice any change in feel I still don't know about the low score crowd on Pirate 10-20% I would need to play with that before I'd be willing to comment on it as anything other than extreme

Lol I think I'm a little different.... for me it isn't about the finished toy, its the process of seeing what I want in my head and building it, the problem solving, improving my skills... proving to myself I can do it To be honest alot of my projects I have to push myself to finish them because... I've done all the creative stuff, its just the mundane stuff to finish there is no challenge in that and I lose interest in them at that stage and find something else to do lol I once had a Hilux I built 6 times at several points it could have driven out of the workshop.... but as I'd finish I'd come up with a better way or idea and I'd carve it up and start again lol made a few friends and started a bit of business selling hop up bits for hiluxs from that project and in the end I parted out the whole truck lol As for this to be honest making the bits I saved wouldn't be much of a challenge but I wanted to carry some stuff over into the new toy truck so this had to happen

Got a day in the shed at home so started with this After half a day with a plasma I have 3 piles.... stuff I'm saving for the new toy(rear suspension, the sliders with the box section uprights, the galv capping from the tub and the cab the other two piles are scrap alloy and scrap steel And this is whats left

Its loaded because it is personal opinion lol In theory I agree it should lift, this is the odd thing the pirate guys who I refered to found the opposite they were running scores like 15-20% and found it was able to climb the axle up steps better, they didn't care about dynamics just results and they built alot of rigs and mod'ed them all the time and just changing AD on a truck was the difference between climbing certain tracks or not ..... I wouldn't setup a road truck like this as it would be a bit scary lol Offroad I have never been able to see a worthwhile gain.... going downhill you have gravity on your side and stopping on the way down is more about the level of traction the ground will give so having the ability to jack the front end to me is mout, to climb things you are either going real slow using engine torque or you are accelerating in which case the front is unloaded due to inertial weight transfer Onroad or racing where your on gravel roads or hard dirt traction is better and to me the AD is worthwhile to make the truck more stable by stopping the nose diving under brakes and I normally setup or recommend a median of 80% but it depends on the weight that transfer a rear engine truck for example I'd want less, now these figures are what I'd shoot for on the front I'm more concerned that the links are as long as possible (reduces changes in handling due to large changes in angles as the suspension extends or bumps) is the most important and fitment around motor etc next then the score The other thing is don't forget link geometry is only a part of whole spring rate, shocks, swaybars etc all play a part

Lol your little two paragraph post is so loaded AD is something that really isn't that discussed online and books on the subject when it applies to a solid beam axle.... to be honest I've yet to find any that offer up any usable advice for long travel so the following is my personal observations and some comments I've found from respectable forum members I really only consider this something worthwhile for road going or off road racing vehicles for the simple fact of traction.... to gain the bonus of the virtual weight transfer to the front axle when braking you need a good hard surface.... this is what AD does is create a jacking motion that forces the front up as the torque loading from the brakes is applied to the axle and for every force there is an equal and opposite force so if the body is forced up there is a similar force on the tyres.... more weight on the tyres means potentially more traction which you can use to stop better It all boils down to traction now if your on mud, wet conditions or your tyres are full of mud whats the advantage.... there isn't one Now there is another bonus to AD again more for road going trucks this is the jacking effect can be used to counter some of the front end dive that comes from the inertial weight transfer that comes from deceleration I have come across some posts on pirate about AD and usefulness and there are a few that believe lower numbers are better for traction in 4wd better at climbing the axle over stuff (rock climbing).... in my yrs of watching and tuning 4wd's offroad I haven't seen an advantage or disadvantage to do with different number and I concern myself with fitment more than a set of numbers and try where I can to put in adjust ability and in about the same range as you have selected for no other reason than that is the done thing lol interestingly most don't adjust them and the few that do I have some that liked it higher and others that prefered it lower and both for the same reasons "brakes better when ....." lol As for links and size lol if they are running that for Ultra 4 then they will be sweet, I can't comment on alloy links I haven't used them before alloy is very expensive and hard to source here and not as user friendly as steel

Right just finished playing lol what a cracker night nothing like being an idiot... Anyway back to the thing Bill noted, as you make your rollcenter higher he found he lost feel for the tipping point and when it went it went faster with a higher rollcenter..... apply the model I noted above low rollcenter the body tips on the out till it gets to the piont the CoG is outside the triangle then it lifts the uphill wheel and falls, so your able to feel the body moving before the wheel lifts, on the flip side the body moving is what has moved the CoG out far enough to finish tipping it Now with a high rollcenter the body doesn't move as much untill the wheel is lifting, but you will gain some extra angle because the body isn't tipping Bill also noted that a lower rollcenter gave better climbing traction particularly in ruts, this is a bit of puzzle to me (not that he noted this, but as to why).... best guess is a form of suspension lock out due to the fact as you move the rollcenter up you increase the amount the axle swings sideways as it articulates, I'm guessing this sideways motion in articulation is being resisted by the side of the rut stopping the axle articulating making the opposite wheel light on the ground allowing it to break traction but this is a guess lol

Close... the reason a lifted truck tips is mainly just because of the raise in CoG, imagine a triangle the base is the wheels where they touch the ground the top point is the CoG. To make the triangle tip you have to tip it up enough for the CoG to wheel contact line to go over vertical now make that triangle taller (lift, bigger wheels, rollcage etc) notice how it has a steeper angle to the side of the triangle... doesn't take as much to tip Now because real world isn't as simple as that add in bigger wheels have more sidewall deflection so will drop that down hill corner of the triangle a bit more, lifted springs have a softer spring rate (more travel) etc, your suspension pivots.... this is where rollcenter comes in.... your suspension creates a point that the body rotates around in relation to the axle (each axle has a different height based on its suspension geometry) to calculate this you must look side on to the pivot points of the suspension so for us with beam axles that means side on to the truck (with independent suspension you are front on, this changes how rollcenter reacts against a tipping load.... and why a higher rollcenter can work for us) Lets go back to our triangle, the bottom is the wheels on the ground (lets assume they don't move) then we have the body ontop with the CoG as the top point of our triangle.... somewhere between is the rollcentre pivot point, now lets start with a low rollcenter as you tip the triangle the body is going to tip on the springs rotating around the rollcenter pivot moving the CoG out getting closer to tipping the triangle.... now if the closer the rollcenter is closer to the CoG you get less body roll swinging the CoG out to the side Now there is something that Bill put me onto about this relationship but I've got to get to work and I'm late now lol will add it tonight

275 amp Mig on single phase 240v with 0.9mm wire on about 18v from memory (will check if you want...) Didn't do anything on the trailer today, I attacked the parts car Stripped the front off and removed alot of the engine bay trim... so it'll be easier to get to the bits and pieces to remove the motor and box Then started on the inside Had a bit of a windfall while stripping this ..... found $15.60 in change lol Now that this is done its just a case of pushing it into the workshop so I can weld up the broken tierod and then we can start unplugging and stripping electrics and driving it so I can work out what is tied into the body control module.... then work out what signals, voltage etc it needs to think its still there, this is why I've even stripped the door cards this gives me access to the central locking I have left the stereo hooked up tho.... surprisingly good sounds from a factory unit and we will need some good music to make hooning this thing around with no seats a bit more bearable lol

Thank you for the comment, not much in the way of tech in a trailer... but some more tech will come lol Tal, we are lucky there is a history of home made trailers here in NZ, so the government can't tie it up with legislation (will eventually happen I imagine) so all I'll have to do is take it in to a Vehicle Testing Station where a mechanic (not an engineer lol) will look at it and say it is fit for the task.... there is no standard as to how built it must be other than road worthy-ness (bearings, tyre tread, lights, brakes and hitch etc) He will pass it for these and I register it and thats it

Got a wee bit more done on the trailer tonight, bit of a struggle to line up due to weld warpage on the inner frame, that and I didn't notice at the time when I welded the legs but the floor here isn't really flat, not much in it but enough to cause me to cut the tacks a few times and re-align.... lol would be so nice to do this on my table at home

think the limiter is at 7500, but if your keen to risk it all that is controled by the rev gauge and its possible to remove the limiter.... the Outlaw has had it done, rather un-nerving if you hold it in gear on the trans it will scream past 7500

Finally got some of my profiles from Steel n Tube (they forgot to do the beadlock rings) but I'm able to do some trailer Also got a new toy My motor and trans was dropped off this morning Anybody want parts.... would be nice to get back some of what I've spent to get this And this is what its all about 2GR-fe, 10 more hp than the lexus V8 and 20 more Nm and it comes with a transaxle with a tip tronic 6 speed