De Ranged

Axle done now its just a case of waiting on the profiles from steel n tube Oh and you want a person I'm not that keen on job.... didn't have access to a lathe down here so doing a but weld joint on the axle tubes was a very slow process of grind and line up with a level repeat till it had no daylight on the join then spot weld and adjust (snap the welds and try again lol and again till I decided to space up the tube so when the spot welds pulled it I could bend it back to true so much for all the work to get a perfict mating face....) then weld the whole thing and fish plate Would have been so simple to machine up a muff insert, press it in plug weld and then ring weld lol miss my shop

Yep keeping the dual's they give me redundancy incase I blow a wheel but in single axle so the trailer will be alot easyier to steer around than a tandem axle The axle is from an Isuzu Elf light commercial with a 3 ton max payload Just about got the axle done tonight but ran out of wire gluing the fish plates over the axle tube weld..... hopefully be able to get another roll tomorrow

Carved the axle up, glueing it back together is tonights diversion Got these made from most of the pile of cut bits..... the rails for the trailer

Me and a mate go at the brakes, 2 old calipers from my stash of hilux parts some old half worn pads and a litre and a half of brake fluid the brakes are working .... well sort of, they will stop me but nothing like they should lol doesn't sfeel like the booster is working properly.... the auto will easily over power them Stripped and cleaned one hub and bearings lol rust pitted and seal is warped so we just cleaned them up, packed fresh grease and put it back together..... will look at replacing them later Here is a shot of the vented disk caliper that poped its pistons trying to reach the solid disk it was mounted on.... and a seized caliper that we swopped out And also got a bit of trailer done..... rolled the axle out of the container so I could cut it up and modify if for use

Thank you for the comment I think we are heading that way. A few yrs back a couple of companies that make tow bars got together and made a standard more an addvertising thing but you are hard pressed to find a car warrant tester that doesn't treat this standard as law and fail you if it doesn't have there little sticker and we are starting to see vehicle tow rattings coming in too lol gone are the days of common sense Just sent off the files for the profile cutter, set of 16" beadlock rings, and the set of mounting tabs, shackle plates, guard plates etc for the trailer it has taken me a while to sort the CAD for this.... I got a short term promotion to manager so I've been a bit fried at nights lol but my mate who runs things is going to be back today YAY!

There was one more bit to this that I forgot to add running out of time and that is tyre size, because your kingpin inclination angle is angling out at the bottom as you increase tyre size you can move the tyre contact patch inside of the kingpin point.... easy way to visuallise this is small tyres and offset means impacts to the wheel will cause toes to swing out, large tyres and no spacers will cause toe in All of this assumes road conditions where your hitting a bump with the contact patch.... offroad when we smack into a bank or other high point you are ALOT further away from your pivoting kingpin line.... add in offset rims, spacers and like most big fat tyres with side biters and this is normally when things go snap lol this is also why I prefer axles with the tie-rod at the front of the axle, from my experience the worst impacts are when travelling forward with trying to use momentum to get up something this impact pulls on the tie-rod a rear mounted tie-rod is under compression any bends are are weak points. Yes there is an argument that the tie-rod as a week link is a good thing.... I see this a different way a bit more time in the shed and solve the next few weak links and I drive past where the dude with the rear mount tie-rod is sitting on the track crying lol In the case of the hilux axle (lol I have put alot of time building these so know there issues well) it means high steer custom made steering arms (also allows me to set the ackerman for the wheelbase) 80 series cruiser tie-rod ends and custom made cro-moly tie-rod and drag link, make up new kingpin bearing caps that use a thinner bearing making the centre pin on the bearing bigger, does mean the bearings wear out sooner, ARP studs for the steering arms or better yet six shooter arms and swivel housings and after all that change the steering box to a surf or cruiser box and go X over steering Biff all this into a custom built housing with longfields custom mix of hilux and +2" 40 series shorter I'm 75mm wider and have the option to run IFS hilux hubs for another 66mm of width and I haven't done anything yet with spacers or offset rims lol also known as my "porn" axles a set of which I will toss at the Out Law

Here in NZ we are allowed them or offset rims you can even run both but there is an overall limit that you may run (have the book somewhere here can look it up if you want) Now as to the reason why this limit is there... yes the mechanical reasons mentioned above are part of this but the main reason is something called Scrub Steer Imagine a line that runs through the centre of your kingpins down to the ground, this is the centre point of your steering when you turn imagine sitting stationary and turning the wheel.... the important distance is the distance between this and the centre of your tyre contact patch Take a standard series with the original wheels and rims (rims have a similar offset to IFS rims) this puts the contact patch directly under the kingpin contact point so you have no Scrub Radius (the important bit) this was why they didn't need power steering .... now you bif some spacers or offset rims at the same axle say 25mm spacers not much really..... wrong its a big change and here is why Your steering is designed to take the impact knocks to the wheel eg bumps (bump steer is a different thing all together and comes from suspension movement) I'm talking about as you travel forward and your tyre hits a bump the tyre trying to be forced back now in the series axle with its original rims no drama it has little feed back into the steering system but if you move the wheel out (spacers rims etc) when it gets hit the tyre wants to swing backwards rotating around the kingpin contact point feeding back into the steering now consider the extra distance the same as a cheeter bar on your ratchet..... if your handle is this long and you double it what do you do to the force on the nut ? now think about this with your steering lol yea that is why the powers hate spacers etc All this said from experience there is normally ALOT of safety margin designed into steering components of 4wd's so a bit of extra width isn't going to smash things On a hilux axle more than 30mm you will get a noticeable increase in wear of consumables (kingpin bearings, balljoints etc) they will handle up to 50mm before your looking at damage level and I know some running 75mm each side in trials that with regular maintenance are not failing Right time for work lol hope you appreciate this post.... it has cost me half n hour of CAD time designing my trailer Cheers

Thank you.... its something I've been curious about but didn't know where to start

Yea it is gutting.... just get my grove on in the shed and got to go again Mate this new toy lol being honest I love it, this cool amalgamation of redneck and tech.... but its left me looking at the original plan and really rethinking what I carry over into the new one Anyway on a positive note I've brought the replacement caliper back with me so this weekend I'll have a go at the brakes.... in the mean time I've got a trailer to build

Missed out on the salvage auction so watching a few others Just for the moment since the toy is out of action till I get back with a new (scrap) caliper and I'm able to sort the brakes, I decided to start something else lol like starting new projects Now every Out law needs a ride and in this case my toy is no different so $1000 later and a few hrs after work I have...... Just a few more bits to cut and that is all the frame done, got to finish the CAD stuff for the mounting tabs and the drive over guards and I can send them off to the profile cutters, in my shed tomorrow so will machine up some spring shackles for it

All painted and on with a new filter and the right oil..... top up the water for the motor and half an hr of thrashing the truck around the yard (backing off well before the ends of the yard because of no brakes!) I've learned my mate was right the gears are coming back as the clutch bands burn off the bad oil, reverse was the worst 6000 rpm in reverse with beerly any movement at the start.... by the end it was good enough if I selected a gear it moved it.... it still isn't sitting me back in the seat so still alot of slippage but I can now identify the gears as the trans changes so thats one problem sorted Also got the self centre steering to work, was just a stone jamed in the centering direction of the steering control lever.... this is very cool, the neibours had a few cones set out in the yard for forklift training and I was able to scoot round in them... give the lever a flick back and the rear pops centre again As for the latest issues/bodges I've found I have found out whats wrong with the rear caliper (the one with 3 pads)....feel free to correct my assumption on this, but trials in southland must require more braking from the rear drivers side as it has been fitted with an IFS hilux caliper you know the ones with the 4 big pistons the ones that are normally used with vented disks lol its no wonder the pistons are popping out This is also the reason why I didn't bother to try and bleed the brakes.... I've got some spare solid disk calipers at home (in the scrap pile lol good thing I didn't get around to taking that lot to the scrappy!) so I'll grab that next time I'm home Found the fuel tank has a leak where the "knead-it" used to "weld" the filler neck on has come unstuck..... Now I've got it running the front CV/DS to gearbox case seal is leaking bad... probably the real reason why the trans was empty The auto choke on start up isn't working right on cold startup.... running real ruff and struggling And I have the engine check warning light on all the time, even when its warmed up and running Ran out of time to play on it so didn't look to see if the original OB2 plug is still there.... I hope so All the drama and rough state of the trans and motor has me considering if I'd be better with a new option.... seriously considering putting in a bid on an insurance right off car with a moderate k's toyota 2gr-fe and tip tronic trans

lol I was thinking does it come with a pre-flight check list That is so cool....

Right finished the armour plating for the sump.... now a coat of paint and new filter and seal and I can thrash the trans to burn off the bad oil from the trans brakes/clutches

Finally doing something with this.... got a 20L of the right trans fluid and a few cans of brake clean time to do some work on it First off sort the sump so I can move it around... and stop the oil leak under it spreading Now when I bought this the sump was dry other than a couple of small weep marks where the welds for the sump guard had pin holes 2 weeks later and the whole sump is wet.... suggests its been dry untill just before I turned up to buy it hmmmm Get the sump off and discover the over full nice red oil is sitting ontop of some thick black oil..... that I think may have been what was left of the trans fluid last time it was taken out for a play... Oh yay On a positive note when I started to wash the black stuff out I found someone had tossed a couple of magnets in the bottom of the sump and these only had normal wear (metalic powder) on them, this is a good thing because of what I noticed next The filter has a dint in it that has been good enough to loosen the filter element inside it!.... the sump does have some damage hiding under the plate reinforcing, odd thing is they don't match the dint in the filter... and there is lots of silicon on the inside of the obviously reused sump gasket.... more hmmmm Hate finding stuff like this... it leaves me wondering what the F is going on or gone on... Oh well since the magnets were all good I'll keep going lol First off remove the plate off it and fix the dints I did try and get a shot of the dints nothing major worst one was about 10mm deep but the camera just didn't show them... a bit of panel beating with a claw hammer on a wooden bench (I miss my workshop and tools lol) and a flap its ready Almost an hr later I have a CAD profile curticy of mates box he bought for an F-up at work lol At this point I decided it was time to go home given I'm going to be bending this with a cold chisel and hammer and vice lol did I mention I miss my tools and workshop

Done a bit of research turns out the bad pedal travel is due to an imbalance at the master due to the fact with the disc conversion the disc caliper requires a larger volume of fluid to activate the brakes so the master isnt delivering the correct amount of fluid for the size of the pistons ie if a drum slave and a disc caliper have the same size pistons they still need different masters as the disk requires more fluid to work This issue is made worse when the master still has a matched end, as in the case I described disk front that stayed disk and a drum rear that went to a large increased piston size disc caliper over the original drums I still haven't found a resemble explanation as to why the pedal travel gets further on the original drum master as the new discs wear, this maybe something peculiar to the Toyota masters (I only use these as they have alot of different piston size and orientation options all in the same fitment) but I haven't yet found anything to say they are different This does bring up the issue that if you convert to disk front and retain your drum rear you will have the same issue if you have the original drum/drum master.... but with the potential to under brake the front and lock the rear Oh and the valving bit is in the Drum master, a residual pressure valve to hold pressure on the drums to stop the springs pulling them too far back in the early drum brakes..... I have found reference to modern drums not needing this due to ratcheting (self tightening) screws to adjust the return stops I think this will be a case by case basis as not all drum brakes I've pulled apart have these My knowledge on this is based on alot of time literally skidding trucks down gravel and wet seal roads here in NZ we have hard to pass (with larger wheels) brake modification tests that require multiple road performance tests In the case of my mates conversion I am doing.... I will complete the front calipers mount a hilux double diaphragm booster and take a best guess master (I have a selection here...) bleed it and test it... change the master based on pedal feel and performance eg which end locks first and how soon compared to the other... I have warned him there is a potential that the conversion I'm doing to the front will out brake the Sals rear drums due to both piston size and the disk dia, if that is the case I might have to convert the rear also... and change master lol Please note my previous posts on this have inaccurate information in them and I am unable to edit this please refer to just this post

I think my explanation might be a bit bad, its not creep its something to do with the valving in a disk master.... a drum brake self adjusts using a tension bolt setup at the brake slave end so the shoe stays around the same distance from the drum as it wears so the master cylinder doesn't have to compensate for this.... on a disk system the master adjusts to keep the pedal at the same place as the pads wear and the pistons stay out (why you have to top up your disk brake master cylinder as the pads wear) So if you use a drum master on a disk brake calipers system your foot will get further and further away as the pads wear and the caliper pistons extend Now don't ask me how a disk master does this lol I don't know and since I'm not allowed to modify this (legally, and they are way to cheap to bother playing with) I've never bothered to find out.... but after yrs of selling disk conversions for hilux's I can tell you the results if you don't swop the masters Run a search on Pirate... I've seen a couple of threads on there about this you'll find the reason why Oh and I have had one muppet who didn't replace the master when I sold him a conversion with a large piston disk conversion... he came back later because his brake pedal slowly got to the stage where it would hit the firewall!

you will need to change the master, the drum masters will as the disks wear not creep out to compensate for wear so your pedal travel will get further and further as the disks wear In the system I'm planing on for my mate I'm going to a hilux double diaphragm booster and a toyota master I'll start with a 80 series cruiser (disk front drum rear) Could some one who has one of these Zeus kits post up the piston sizes on the caliper..... I hunted long and hard to find something with resumble piston size and still able to fit inside the rim.... why I ended up with the Mazda calipers they are a resumble piston size and the mounting posts are way out at the ends of the calipers so they fit closer to the swivel housing

I'm doing a conversion for a mates SII, just got it at a stage where I'm waiting on him to get the blanks for the caliper mounts so I can machine them.... Mazda RX7 s5 front four pot calipers and machined BMW X5 disks Will post up the details when I'm done

Having been down similar paths with various clients.... my view is make the replaceable wearing parts as common as you can, so I'd suggest reaming the arms Looking at your examples of the different BJ's I think you may find the toyota dyna light truck has a similar BJ taper to what you want, this is what I'm using to make HD tie-rods (I'm reaming the arms and pitman arm to fit these, same fat dia but bigger thin dia) "" Catch is they don't do a long arm for attaching your drag link and they are short if you go down this path your going to have to build a bent tie-rod with a mount for the draglink I'm going to be at my shed this evening working on a mates truck so I'll grab a part number for you to try

Yep and the second one still wasn't enough to stop it blowing the seals out lol

Cheers for that.... Been talking with a mate who is a technical oil specialist and he's convinced the missing reverse is the oil.... its the wrong type so going to flush it and see Got my phone but was a late night so only grabbed a few pics (will post some more tomorrow) Here it is in its glory Here is why it has no brakes.... note the rather crafty bodge lol have to admit first time I've seen this before And here's a couple of the cage X brace There is more lol lets just say I have a few things to fix before I thrash this..... but i'm going to do as little as I can to this, since I'm building a whole new chassis body for it

A wee teasers of an update Just got back from a roady to go get the trials truck "outlaw" she's sitting at work, no brakes, exhaust manifold leak, no reverse gear on the trans its slipping bad.... think this maybe due to way to much oil in the trans, I'd guess a collapsed king pin bearing on one corner that I'd guess has been gone for a while due to the excessive wear on the disk, the rear self centering hydro steering lol yea well hmmm and lol well.... you really need to see some pics of this... unfortunately my cam on the phone is carp (I tried but you really can't see what you want to see), got a new one arriving tomorrow hopefully lol I love it.... there is some real cool engineering in this.... but its this wild cross of trials tech redneck style lol we are going to thrash this thing But I'll leave ya a crappy vid of beertarra playing on the old mans toy on the road trip down http://vid243.photobucket.com/albums/ff195/De_Ranged/Junk/MOV00001.mp4 More to come lol

There is a bit more to this question than what first meets the eye.... so I will simplify it abit and just assume since this is a 4wd forum this is about long travel multiple spring coilovers... First the spring rate, in a normal coil your rate of compression is linear (if you add 100lb it will compress X, if you add 200lb it will compress 2X) a coilover with multiple springs normally has a travel stop on one spring (the spring divider will bottom out on the shock body stopping the travel of one spring) now what this does is allow an increase in travel resistance, for the first part both springs are free to compress so they both do (if you use the same spring rate for both springs as my above example since there are two springs both getting weight so 100lb will move each spring X so a total compression of 2X, once the slider hits its stop then only one spring can carry any of the weight so the 100lb will only compress it X) this changing rate allows for more down travel than up and the truck to be built lower to the ground (lower CoG) than a normal linear spring Now its never just that simple lol there are other ways to get a variable rate from a coil making them non-linear, a spring that has laps that are closer together at one end is an example... if they can compress to the point they bottom out against each other! they have to do this to change the rate, very few that are fitted to vehicles do (have a look at the paint where they would need to bottom out on if its not cut by the compression of the coil they arn't compressing enough to change the rate and the spring is linear) now as these coil laps bottom out they stop being able to compress and it works in exactly the same way as the coilover hitting the slider stop. Some coilovers work both systems to give 3 different rates of travel over the length of travel, this also means a normal coil suspension system can match a coilover There is one one bonus the coilover springs have and that is tune-ability they come in different rates and lengths giving near infinite options where as changing a vehicle coil spring requires ones built specifically for that vehicle Just on a personal note its an awful lot of trouble to go to when a crappy old leaf spring is way more progressive lol Your shocks.... to be honest there is no difference other than coilovers tend to be more expensive so are a better optioned shock, if you want to spend the money then you can fit just as good Alignment, this is one that untill you get into longer travel is of little gain... a vehicle coil has a seat on the chassis and on the axle suspension as these separate they swing in an arc meaning these seats angle away from each other... on a long travel system this can cause a vehicle coil to bulge and collapse where as the coilover of the same length always has the springs aligned hope this helped

Sweet as guys I'll keep posting Fortunately I'm going to be building this 750km and a 6hr ferry ride from home so the cost of bringing it down was just too much, I'll get some bits down through mates (my axles and and the rear suspension and some other bits n tools) This trials truck I've bought was too good a deal.... a bit on the ugly side but and not that flash suspension wise but a cool list of parts and has prompted where I intend to take the build The front wheel drive V6 Cammery and auto is a very good setup for this the local trials guys use these autos with LS1+ motors, the motor is an improvement over the holden commador motor I was planing on (still uncertain on motor model lol, if it happens to be the later model 3.5 they are 270hp) The axles are hiiux solid steering axles front and rear with 4.8 ratio diffs with chinese ARB's, he was running cromoly birfs but talking with people who have competed against this rig have warned me it eats diffs cv's and axles.... which is what I'd expect running a hilux steering axle in the rear The full hydro front and rear steer with the rear self centering (this isn't as simple as you'd think or cheap lol) As well as this its got 4 wheel fiddle brakes and all the other stuff 50mm wheel spacers, seats, belts controls etc I was planing on hydro steering for the toy anyway and hllux axles to go with the repower, the rear steer is something I was thinking about as it lets you run a longer wheel base (better for climbing and decents) and still have a good turning circle The front wheel drive trans mounted north south I've done before in a Lada Niva and works really well problem is fitting 2 people and a motor inside the cab means the cab has to get wider.... this is where my porn axles come in they are a combination of cruiser and hllux inner axles to make the housing I think 70mm wider than a standard hilux that plus a pair of 50mm spacers and I'll be around 1950mm wide a tight fit but do-able, this keeps me nice and low which I like So basic plan (still pending on any issues I find when I pick up the trials truck) Keep the trials truck running till I have the chassis rolling and ready to take all the parts Wheel base 106-108"(in inches since most people understand this lol) Wheel track to outside of wheel around 1950mm wide Camry V6 motor and trans mounted between the seats with a weight bias to the front of 55/45 to 60/40% mounted in a space framed tub that fits over the motor and will tie into the suspension mounts and cage, the cage will be shaped to look like an exo over a landy cab the guards at the front will be a tube style guard to look like the front of a series same at the back but to the shape of a shorty tub Suspension will be the same in the rear but with JJ's and RRC balljoints The front a 1/4 elliptical setup but with a conventional triangulated 4 link A custom version of my rockassault axle for the rear with a set of Longs in it (already have), front will be the housing I already have but will fit some of the axles from the trials truck for the moment fit the hydro steering, change the Air lockers into some 4.3 diffs to increase the speed a bit That about covers it As for the work I've done lol I've enjoyed doing it thats good enough I'll probably trade or give away all the bits to mates

Work has moved me again lol Christchurch now, but as a bonus I'm being given access to the company workshop after hrs so I'm taking this toy down to play on it..... more to the point some of the parts and a collection of other parts from other stuff So I have something to play with down there I've bought another toy.... a custom built trials truck (it was going cheap.... very cheap) Toyota V6 Cammery front wheel drive motor and auto box mounted north south, hilux steering axles front and rear, hydro steer front and rear with a return to center setup for the rear, 4 wheel fiddles etc The intent is to CAD up a full tube chassis for the Cammery (better motor than the commy) in the shape of a series landy.... I say shape because its going to be a bit wider than normal so there will be no landy parts left in this.... too much hassle to try and tig weld a filler piece into the roof, I'll get a couple of car roofs and weld them with the mig I'll use the rock assult style axle for the front and make another for the rear, and take the hydro steering off the trials truck for both The suspension will be from this truck for the rear and what I've made for the front but I'll add JJ's and the RRC balljoints instead of the rubber ends The rest of the stuff will come from the trials truck or my collection at home So basically this isn't going to be a landy lol I'll still call it that because I'm going to shape it like one but that is the only connection to a landy it will have...... so do I continue the build thread here? I've started a build thread on a local site (NZ) and I was thinking to just leave this with a link to that..... but since I've started would you guys like me to continue to post on this thread ? There won't be much happening straight away as we are working long hrs to impress our new client lol and I want to CAD as much as possible before I start so the building of it will be quicker at the moment all I'm doing is modifying a set of 16" rims to narrow them and beadlock them so they will fit a set of 35x10" silverstone M117 xtremes