De Ranged

Just brain storming part of my project First off electrics isn't my strong point so feel free to correct me lol Now I'm dropping a 24V motor and auto into an old Series, now not being flash on electrics I wanted to keep the whole truck to the same voltage.... so after a bit of research found it was possible to convert the motor and auto to 12volt..... Last night while chatting at the shed with a mate I was describing some of the things I plan to upgrade.... to do with electrics and it dawned on me... it would be easier to convert the truck than the motor and trans... I was planing on doing a new loom anyway so the way I see it the change isn't that great.... I also have a mate who is planing to go the opposite way so may be able to gain some parts from the same model truck my motor is from.... Now catch is I want to keep the early series look I don't want to go to flash plastic trim bits, levers, switches etc so the plan was to try and find period looking stuff like bakerlight toggle switches What I would like to know.... isn't a paint by numbers how too lol I don't do things easily and it probably won't be the way I want it... I want to know if I'm on the right track... if I have missed anything I have this vague memory of a couple of triangles to do with ohms law and comments about ratio'ing Volts and amperage so if this is right... I can use 12v switches because the amperage is less and amps is what kills them ? Most of the gauges I'll run new ones and just change the faces when I set them in the dash (need a better Volt and Oil Pressure gauges for this motor) One thing that does concern me is the speedo, my initial idea was a small motor running through a reduction box and turning the input gear of the speedo, this is controlled by a variable speed controller hooked up to a hall sensor on the rear drive shaft (controller and sensor a bit of a mash of Jay Car electronic kits) now this was all when I was planing on 12v is this still possible or am I better off trying to sort something else Is there anything I'm missing ?

with 3mm I just used a pair of tin snips.... worked well gets a bit tough on the hands after a few meters tho lol. If its thicker I'd use a jigsaw with a plastic/wood style bit The grinder cuts it easily enough... on the thicker stuff you do get some melt on the edge of the cut but unless your precision fitting it I wouldn't worry catch for me is when you go to use the grinder for metal again it smells of burning plastic lol

Amateurs... still stuck thinking inside the box lol Years ago I built up a peg board tool display... all my spanners, sockets, ball penn hammers and common grabbed tools are there... at a glance I can see its not there, no wasted time searching through draws to find the tool a mate has used (or I've forgotten I've used...) bonus with the peg board is its easy to modify... in fact its due for a make over as I've just updated my socket sets and will need to add some more tools that I'm using from the draws I do have draws underneath but they are for the specialized stuff... panel beating tools, taps dies etc As for the portability thing I set the whole thing up on casters so I could move it round the shop lol I found I don't... thing is if I move it, I take it further away from somewhere else that i find I need it so I just have to move it again... where it is in the middle of the shop is good its where I have to walk past to go from a project to the work bench, it is right next to the fab table... its not in the way where I'm working and close enough Something I do move around alot is a collection of "work stand-step ladder-tool tray" things that I've made from scrap or recycled steel that are spreed around the shop.... just need to come up with a design that stacks so I can save some space when not in use

That is one very good post... thank you

I wouldn't recomend resetting springs when I was running my custom shop I had a client push for a custom pack and get them re-arched... I went with a local outfit I'd heard good comments about, 4 yrs later they are lower than where we started.... he hasn't used it to carry loads infact it probably spend 2 of those yrs sitting parked up Based on this I did a fair bit of research.... first not all spring steel is equal, and you can't apply the same treatment to different steels and expect the same results.... next there are alot of variables in the process first they have to normalise, some steels might require multiple normilsing treatments, then bend, then heat treat to harden and then heat again to temper so they will bend without braking now each one of these needs a different heat, time to soak in this heat and a technique to cool.... get any of this wrong and it won't be hard enough or too hard, then the temper phase same deal but with the added fun some steels like multiple temper treatments New steel comes with spec sheets detailing all this and the ranges, easy to get a good result for a specialist... now when its old springs its best guess as to what to do Add to this there are alot of guys that work off a colour chart as to the heat (the colour of the glow when hot) this gets vague as things as simple as cloud cover can change the tone of a colour making it possible to miss read the colour and change things alot this is incidentally the tech the local guys work with and kind of explains why I got a waist of money job Unless you can find a specialist who has done lots of landrover springs I recomend not risking your current springs or your money.... new springs might seem like a lot of money but in the long term they are a better investment Just a side note if you do decide to do this when I've done this I spec'd the height taken from a line across the top of the spring eyes to the spring seat.... this gave them the arch

Just had one of the top 4wd NZ competitors rock in home, just bought a 517hp motor for his S1 landy lol, i mentioned this thread and the support for these tyres.... told me of two club guys he knows with road legal Nissan Patrol club trucks that ran them both only got around the 15,000k mark before the tyres started to delaminate (giving a bit of ground for exaggeration lol so probably closer to 20k) .... I know of both these guys and they are winch challange competitors so they would have put them through there paces.... but still.... I'm glad I listened to my mate I really hope you get a good run on them.....

no trash talk just my mates knowledge from selling them.... I've never run them, I was looking at tyre choice about 3-4 months ago and asked his advice, I passed this on here.... I still haven't made a decision (other than I'm not going with Coopers, based on his advice), so at the moment I'm building around a set of Micky T MT's I happened to have for my toy.... which is kinda ironic as they are an aggressive mud tyre so will be just as bad onroad in the wet lol Did have some more info from him but I'll leave it there....

A bit more too it.... they used to run setups like this for the 4wd comps here, they used to use self tappers into the bead along with glue but with alot more bolts lol that doesn't look like it would stop dirt from pushing the bead in Haven't seen it done in yrs. noticed a few references on pirate to it but no pic's to prove it lol

Like I said I've been told by mates who are from UK/France and US..... our roads are carp We do have an issue in NZ with the chip getting pushed into the seal, its common to see patches that only have the tar showing My tyre mate told me most people felt they were at there worst just as it starts to rain.... one client stating he had to drop his speed by 25% or more when it started to rain (our speed limit is 100km/h) Now bare in mind this isn't just talk, he talked me out of a $2500 sale so he really believes they aren't good Does seem odd that you guys love em and there is next to no one on the US sites with a bad word to be said about them even in reviews from people in Northern States and other areas that get some hard weather Again only thing I can put it down to is the roads here So I'll stick with the Micky T's for now

I got warned off STT's by a mate with a tyre shop.... he has refused to sell anymore as he had too many customers complain that within a yr they weren't safe to drive on a wet road... to the point of customers buying new tyres when these are only a couple mm worn He thinks the compound they use gets age hard and wont grip, I've noticed a few references to extra snipping to improve wet condition handling in there adverts... this doesn't seem to address this issue I have also had this backed up by some of my logging mates who have tried them on there work trucks... alot of these guys run Duellers like Boydie recommended Now that said NZ roads from what my more traveled mates have said are carp lol but I've taken his advice As for the GT I don't know anything about there road going but if its the same as the old compound it will do well I know guys that got big k's on them 100k+, what I do know is they stuffed up when they changed the molds to this new pattern... these things used to be the choice of the majority of road going club trucks... now you won't see a set out there because they don't perform in the mud, most of the club boys are on Maxxis bighorn or buckshot MT they wear faster but are cheaper and they perform the same on the road and out perform them offroad

Hey Si could you post up weight and dimensions.... curious to see what the cost would be

Just seen this and thought you guys would appreciate it http://m.nzherald.co.nz/motoring/news/article.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=11400923

LOL you have a luxury 4wd and your concerned about big k's When I was a lad it was load up the SII 109 hook up the caravan behind it and drive up to central otago for the summer holidays.... no mod cons like aircon, in car music or even diagonal seat belts lol somewhere between 4-6hrs driving often with the cab heater on and the windows open to give it just that little bit more cooling on the big hills.... when we got there it was 2 weeks of 4wd'n, then hook the caravan on and drive home and other than the poor ride and gearbox noise it never missed a beat Its memories like that, that have motivated me to rebuild the 109

Pretty much what I was talking about.... I thought you would have used the footwell bulkhead mount to mount the steering column so I thought you'd be able to use that flat section in the front to "slide" the top down and forward.... but tilting the pedals and giving them room should give you at least a couple of inch's

There is a bit more to this than meets the eye.... there is a relationship between the seat, steering wheel and pedals and the angles they sit at... (if your really interested look up ergonomics, there is alot on the net about this) I'll use my truck as an example (I have a tall body and short legs)... in a normal series I need something behind the lower part of the seat back to recline the seat so my feet can hold the pedals with out pointing my feet, now this still leaves me with a couple of issues, the seat base doesn't hold my bum lol funny as it sounds, it keeps wanting to slide me forward because my back is further back.... second my head is in the roof which restricts my vision I don't know if you've read my build thread but I'm lowering the seat on my camper.... this effects the other two... as the seat goes down so does the steering wheel catch is it also wants to come back a bit (not as much as the seat reclines,as you recline natural natural thing is to extend your arms), the reason is as you extend your legs your back is going to want to recline so you have to bring the steering wheel slightly towards you. Now as the feet go forward this effects the "throw of the pedal" the arc the pedal naturally wants to travel as you extend your foot lol so change something and you effect other things That said I pushed the steering wheel away from the seat... I did this due to my short legs this will get me forward to the pedals lol Reclining the seat may help a bit but the down side is it will push your bum forward reducing your leg room which will trade back and bum pain for knee pain lol but you could find a balance that gives you more seat time before it becomes painfull As for space to push the footwell forward there is bucket loads of room even with 35"s the only catch is the footwell support to the chassis With a fair bit of work you could gain 3-4"s of foot room (with out seeing you sitting in there I'd be a bit concerned that any more than that will put your knees close to the dash edge) You will want to tilt the pedals a bit to deal with the more horizontal throw so I'd do a new floor and lower front and make the front a bit steeper so I'd make the lower 4"s long and the top I'd extend 3"s and tilt the mounts for the pedals up a bit.... I see two ways of doing this, you have a small vertical bit in the front of the foot well if you did away with this you could extend the top down to where the tilted floor meets it and then modify the clutch and brake box mounts to tilt them forward an inch down at the pedal easy way would be to cut the whole top out and add a strip in the top and weld it back in. If it conflicts with intermediate steering shaft make a box or half cone that clearances it, there wont be any conflict as your foot movement is forward and down The other way to do the top is keep your pedal boxes the same and make a whole new top but clearance it down under the column.... don't know the defender column but if it is similar to the disco one there could be a bit of conflict between it and the mounts for the pedal box's meaning you have to spreed the boxes a bit

The narrow bush in a wide arm might not pass our legal... nothing technically wrong but the look of it might start the certifier looking for a reason to fail it lol if I was to go to the narrow bush I'd be better to go to the narrow arms like you

Right... as a distraction in the shed I climbed under the toy SIII and grabbed some measurements (please note these have all been taken from bushes that are installed so there is a margin of error lol) First here is the Rover Disco bush dimensions Dia of outside of the bush 50.8mm Width of bush 44.0mm Width of pin sleeve 54.0mm Nissan Patrol Dia of bush 60.0mm Width of bush 41.0mm Width of pin sleeve 50mm Now just because I could I measured up one of Wingnuts arm to see how much meat would be left if they were machined to fit hehe Remember the arms are cast so the profile tapers in from the edge to a roughly 1/3 section in the middle that is level Right the outside edge at its narrowest would still have 6mm of meat tapering out to 9mm thick for the center 1/3 Lol now I'm happy with that amount of steel, question is do I do it.... after all I really only want 10" worth of shock travel, so I stay balanced with the back... and try and keep road manors for towing

Ander, legally in NZ we can pretty much bolt anything on that doesn't detrimentally effect handling (or improve performance to a level beyond a 8 or 10% threshold) we have a 6 monthly warrent check for mechanical safety that is sposed to include a drive by the mechanic to pick up handling issues not found while under the vehicle... not hard to find places that don't bother with this If you want to modify a vehicles performance, handling or safety systems you have to get a cert.... there are rules on what is allowed and not (the folder with these rules is close to 4" thick lol)... since the cert system is managed by mechanics they get very concerned if welding to cast items is done, it could be done and made legal but it would be easier for me to fabricate my own arm lol... but I may machine them within reason, why the Nissan Patrol bushes caught my eye Just a note on the bushes and legality.... the drilled option would be hard to made legal a cast void on the other hand is a constant replacement wise so easier to be made legal

LOL that second thread was a read... classic Pirate, there is some good tech in there but there is also a good amount of bs, I've got a resumble understanding of suspension and I was having to put an effort in to work out the good from the bad (2hrs to sort through all the post) A couple of points to add from that thread Spring rate will have an impact on the performance of radius arms lol personally I expected this, the bush bind on the front has to be over come by the springs.... I'm not going to bother stating a specifics, as this will be different in different vehicles.... I will add that based on a good portion of the BS in that thread, if you have gas charged shocks they will add to the spring rate as one poster pointed out his shocks took 60kg of force to compress 1" There was a very good post by "Bush65" that explains spring rate I've taken the liberty to copy it (sorry about the black line thing Pirate has a black background and it has copied this with out an option to change) There were several good points about bush options The slotted bushes made a very noticeable difference in pictures to the articulation, the poster was impressed with the performance off road, but with noticeably more body roll on road, but nothing he was unhappy with same with brake performance.... no comment on durability as the thread was dates mid to late last yr A personal note from the pic's it looks to me to have allowed the suspension to balance out between front and rear better There was a unsupported post stating that "superpro" bushes were softer and a good option but the link in the post ran to an ebay search without any specifics Another comment was that the Nissan Patrol radius arm bushes were a better quality, I have used these in the past in suspension links (they are in the rear bottom links for my toy SIII) and they flex incredibly well.... I will have a measure up on fitting these as they maybe a good compromise There was a post by "Bill" warning of the rotation of the axle under braking and possible axle tramp in extreme braking but he posed an interesting solution mount the shocks either side of the axle, a standard trick to minimize the rocking motion under tramp (this isn't really part of this thread subject but some thing I will consider for my truck)

Very good thread, heres some of the points from it Taken from a post by "strangerover" (for those that don't know a very reliable source....) "in standard mounts the arm will bottom out into the axle mounts at 10.8" but was able to gain another inch or so of flex" so this backs up Ian (east..) and muddy of max 12" from pic's on the thread it was obvious that engineering modifications would be needed as the inner sleeve of the bush had bottomed out on the outter sleeve and the upper arm (when articulated) had bound the front of the radius arm up into the top of the axle mounting Drilling holes may extend the life of the bush when used hard offroad, as this removes the area that starts delaminating from the extreme movement of articulation.... the compression of the bush till the rubber is forced (cut) out of the way when the inner sleeve trys to contact the outer, this then allows the rubber to pull away from the outer when stretched (articulated) the other way .... this does make sense It does increase body roll... but doesn't seem to affect braking They were using a hand drill at high speed 2-3000 rpm and drilling out to 12mm top and bottom of the bush and both styles of bush seemed to benefit from it.... the later bush with the extra steel sleeve needed a bit of a hole ground in the middle ring to center the drill There was comments about a special bush being cast with windows to allow the sleeves room to move without cutting the rubber of the bush, but as of yet I've not been able to find any more info if I do I'll post it here lol hardly surprising given that thread is dated 2002

There's some more tech i wasn't aware of.... are you referring to narrower radius arms or to the bushing at the axle end? and what models if you can remember.... Lol remember your old parts truck, the disco.... thats them, I have another set from wingnut also disco, but they have caster bushes in them and i wanted standard bushes so i grabed yours 12" is alot more than I expected the bind in the axle as it hangs under my truck (with no springs) is enough that I can lift one wheel and the other side lifts well before I've moved it a couple of inches lol it just doesn't want to flex! I imagine the rubber bushing will be rather hard after sitting for all that time, I expect it will soften with use (I hope so lol) I'll get a set of wheel scales and work out my spring rate first lol do things properly.... but if they are up for grabs I might grab em

Thanks for that.... my suspension is being added in so lift length is irrelevant, my plan was to set the arms up so the bushes are at neutral at ride height, will rotate the axle mounts to correct caster so won't need caster correction bushes I think from memory the shocks that were in the parts truck were 8 1/2" stroke so that would mean a 10" travel shock would be about all thats worth fitting in there if a +2" lift is as far as its worth pushing them Was thinking the same thing Escape...don't know how legal it would be lol

I'm at the stage in my build where I sort the front suspension I'm working with standard front arms in pretty much standard geometry, I've spent alot of time searching for the information without any joy What are the limits of this system and are there any tweeks to gain a bit more over standard Realistically how much flex / articulation can you get.... or more to the point what is the biggest travel shock that is worthwhile mounting? The way I see it the flex of the bushes will limit the articulation more than anything.... are there certain brands of bushes that are better than others?

I'm about to play with this one, without wheel scales I'm left guessing the front suspended weight... a large diesel straight 6 set so far back the crank pully is just about in line with the front axle.... then add in a series body instead..... After alot of talking with some smart mates we reckon its pretty much the same weight as the disco normally so I'm going to try the disco standard springs I was going to ask this in a new thread but you've covered spring rates for me.... thanks for the link I just have one more Question what is the factory distance for the front axle between the axle spring seat and the chassis spring mount, so basicly what is the compressed length ( at ride height) of the factory disco spring ?

Somewhere around 10yrs ago I did something similar to a 6" model.... I clamped a ram off my 30 ton digger in there, clamped it up as tight as I could.... this included putting a meter of pipe on the handle. Then I heated the end of the spear to glowing red hot to crack a nut.... cracked the nut and removed the piston, turned my back and boom... it was like a gun shot going off... missed me but put a hole in the end of the shed lol it was the heat expanding the shaft that did it Couple of days later i'm in buying another and decided to get cheeky and told them how I'd broken it as a joke attempt at getting another one Got told to tell my story to someother guy in the store.... the Record rep lol... told him what I'd done, he gave me a brand new one the next size up lol