Peaklander Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Last weekend at the end of a short camping trip, my 1996 110 diesel fuel tank decided to leak. Fortunately it was only a drip so it survived until we got home. No pit, no ramp and no lift and as I wanted to drop about 30 litres of fuel I left it on the level rather than jacking up onto blocks / stands. I spent the next day removing the rear step (easy), tow bar support struts (easy), the anti roll bar ball joints (easy) and the bush brackets for the same (a right pain). The screws were head down so I couldn't split the nuts off easily. I needed the angle grinder, never a good idea when it's close to your face. Anyway then it was time for the tank to be removed. At some point the rear cross member has been replaced and I presume the tank would have been removed whilst that was done. The sender clamp twisted off easily and the fuel supply pipe too. A quick grind through the clip on the big fuel filler and that was off, together with the breather. There were no anti-shock rubbers at the front mounts but the nuts came off the bolts OK but at the rear it needed some creative bending of hands and fingers to get an open-ender above the tank to hold the head whilst the socket went on the other end and I released that end too and the tank came down on the trolley jack. The spill return pipe pulled off easily too. So all good and I then saw the leak was from the tank to cradle "interface". I bought a new Bearmach tank that was supplied with a new cradle as part of the deal. I was all ready to start priming and painting, having read plenty of advice on this forum. I'd also got a genuine mounting kit at a good price so all ready to go. However and here's the problem for which II need help. The cradle fit to the tank is terrible (I think). As it's Bearmach I was expecting the two to be matched but the angles are all wrong and mostly at the final bend at each end where the flanges to take the bolts have ribs to strengthen them, thus (I presume) making bending impossible. If I try to hold the two flanges flush with the tank, it looks like this with the angle that I would like to adjust being held by the ribs on the cradle flange (at both ends). The other question is with regard to the mounting. I have the kit with includes the items shown below. However item 5 doesn't want to fit with the cradle there. In this case it must be me - what am I doing wrong? Does anyone have any pics showing how these bits are assembled with respect to tank, cradle and vehicle body? Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 That's normal, my tank guard in the past was a real pig to fit, I ended up using cable ties to hold the guard & tank together while it was lifted & bolted into place. I left that item 5 off when I refitted my tank after the galv chassis fit. photo's of my tank mounts rear mount, front mount nut end & you can see the cable tie heads & bolt head without item 5 in your diagram, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Hunter Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 I've recently removed my fuel tank and here are the photos I took before removing your part no. 5. I must admit, I'm not sure that this attachment is essential since Western left his off. Hope the photos help you. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 Thank you for the pictures @western and @Troll Hunter. I can see now that item 5 is there to hold the nut or bolt head (depending on orientation) so that the fastening can be tightened / slackened with just one tool. In fact as mine's had a new cross member (a long time ago) those two front bolts are welded to the vehicle so that's actually not going to be a problem. I will use the rubber buffers and washers though, as they are intended. There were none on the tank when I removed it. So on the lounge floor (where else), I have fastened the front together and the flange on the cradle has pulled into position reasonably well, although it isn't an engineering fit - a Land Rover fit I suppose. When I go to the rear though and push the cradle onto the tank profile, this is what it looks like. Admittedly there's no fastening there but it's so far off. Is that the sort of mismatch that you found Western? I can see that there is a bit more room for flex but not sure if it's enough...Maybe I should just bend it around more and tighten it all up and hope it's enough. Then hope even more that I can do it all upside down with it on top of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 IIRC I cable tied the rear end first then used the front bolts to pull that end in to place, recently had to replace the tank as it was rust pinholed on the bottom, I found a galvanised tank cradle & after painting it & the tank, once they were fitted I sqirted a lot of fuel resistant sealant along all 4 sides of the guard/tank joint smoothed down with a wet finger to form a nice finish & to hopefully keep any road dirt & moisture out, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 Yes Ralph, I read that you had used sealant in that gap, when I was doing my research. It's a good idea. I seem to use a lot of RTV. It's been good to bolster the door seals and make them hose proof. It is diesel proof though? I'll look on the tube. Maybe I will bite the bullet and get painting (although the weather this morning is terrible). The supplier will be coming back to me on Monday once they have spoken with Bearmach. I feel that another cradle will be offered anyway. Somehow I don't think it will be any different so if I can get some paint layers on before then, I can maybe get chance to try to install and see if the cable ties and a lot of grunting will get it in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 Easier with a 2nd pair of hands if you can persuade a mate to help, I managed with a trolley Jack & some blocks of wood, but it was still a difficult job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 They are not a good fit , I've commented on this problem in other threads . The large radius bend where the guard wraps around the tank is not far enough to the rear . The last two I have done I re-used the factory guard plate after a good clean and a coat of paint . I use grease between the tank and guard/cradle. Be sure to fit fibre washers under the screw heads(x5) on the return fitting as the threaded inserts are not blind like the factory units and will leak if filled to the top . cheers Steve b 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 Hi Steve, yes I saw your comments elsewhere. I doubt I can even separate mine from the tank! I also saw your advice about the top fitting and got some fibre washers although they aren't too good quality. However when the fitting kit arrived (WKK 000020K), this was in it which I think will be a more reliable solution than the washers I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 IIRC when replaced the top return pipe I used the same WGQ000020 gasket between it & the tank . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 Yes I have a cork gasket too and when you search for WGQ000020 it shows cork as well is this one. I hope this does the job although there isn't much seal surface around the disc. Problem is I won't discover until it's all up and brimmed! The cork isn't supposed to be used as well is it ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 Just tried to look at mine with my shufti scope but can't tell for sure, but think I used the gasket in your photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted September 10, 2017 Author Share Posted September 10, 2017 Thought I'd continue the thread until I get to the interesting bit once the paint is dry. As I haven't had the foresight of Mr Rattler to fit a log burner, haven't got any heat in my garage and it was only 12C and very wet here today. So I've been busy painting indoors; the kitchen was a much better place. This is a primer coat and then two of Frost's Chassis black. Probably one more coat will do it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 For one moment there, I thought you were *spraying* in the kitchen Phew, looking good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted September 11, 2017 Author Share Posted September 11, 2017 Ha no that's a step too far. The real test of my relationship will be if I try to hang the tank and cradle above the Aga to bake them. Here I'm just using the clothes airer and think I've got away with it 🤔 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted September 12, 2017 Author Share Posted September 12, 2017 I did manage to give the paint a bit of help by sitting the tank and cradle on top of the Aga. I thought I'd show the rest of the prep as it might help someone next time. I had wondered whether or not to get a tank fitting kit, glad I did as I needed unions and olives to re-plumb the spill return and the little pipe that doesn't do anything. Also I looked long and hard at the gaskets and decided to use the cork and the metal one with the inbuilt seals for the M5 screws thread. Actually that male fitting on the return isn't in WKK0000 20 K and I had to salvage of my old tank. This was one of those "only just managed" jobs that needed heat, penetrating oil and one side in the vice. It didn't take long and cleaned-up well although it looked like a big lump of rust when I started. I had a reply from Bearmach via the parts supplier. They acknowledge that the two parts "spring" together and are a pig to install. They've asked me to try with the cradle I have but they will supply a replacement if I can't do it. So onwards and upwards - literally. These jobs are much simpler during a strip-down. A nice ramp or even a pit would help. Ho hum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 I had to cut a bit off the right hand side blanked pipe it was far to long to let the tank sit in the correct place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Hunter Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 You have my total admiration! A very tidy job, but your bravery, or is it just stupidity, risking the wrath of SWMBO is awe inspiring. You are my super-hero for the risks you've taken to complete a Landy job. I trust that all tell tale paint drips, and smears were removed before the said owner of the Aga returned. Mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted September 12, 2017 Author Share Posted September 12, 2017 Oh she's OK with it, having had a baptism when I moved an 88" onto a galv chassis a few years ago. Most black painted parts sat on there and I think the oven and freezer came in handy too during the gearbox re-build! The new tank is up and all connected with the ARB re-bushed and new joints. Getting it up was hard but actually not as bad as I had feared with the aforementioned lady driving the trolley jack. I'm sure loads have already had this experience but just for Defender newbies like me, who might have to do it themselves from below, here's how it goes up. Looking from the rear, it firstly needs to be tilted up to the right to get the filler spout over the chassis, (off-side RHD). Then the rear needs lifting to get the tank and cradle flange inside the rear crossmember. Only then can the front be lifted to locate up to its crossmember. The front fixings which use the rubbers are very straightforward as they are easily accessed. I didn't need to use item 5 in the parts diagram (referred to above) as my bolts were welded by the PO at rear crossmember change. Item 5 allows for loose bolts to be used as it prevents the heads from spinning,. However I was puzzled by the front fixings. There's a bolt with a plate welded to the head, a spacer which is threaded for the bolt and then a spring washer and nyloc. It's pretty much impossible to reach up and drop the bolt in with the tank and cradle in mid air. The parts book shows them going upwards with the nut on top and that's even more difficult. So I've assumed that the threaded spacer holds the bolt in place and then the tank and cradle push up and are both held against it. The sender is back in and working and both fuel pipes joined up. Popped the 30l of fuel in and it fired straight away. Just got some sikaflex to push into the joint between tank and cradle (although I put a good bead onto the cradle before) and there's underseal to spray. I don't want to do that job again from underneath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 the 2 rear studs on the plates are meant go in before offering the tank up, with the stud facing down, there is a recess in the rear cross member that stops the plate/stud from turning, the other plate fits in the tank/guard bracket with the spring washer & nut, the parts diagram for items 12.13.14.15 is shown facing up when it should be facing down. top marks to your trolley jack operator & good to see the tank all in place, it's one job I'm not very keen on, but hopefully won't have to touch my tank/guard for a long time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted September 13, 2017 Author Share Posted September 13, 2017 10 hours ago, western said: there is a recess in the rear cross member that stops the plate/stud from turning, That's what threw me as there isn't anything there to do that. I had to put a couple of nuts on the studs to hold them whilst tightening the spacer thing (item13). It would have made much more sense if they sat in an indent. Everything is tight so it should be OK. Thanks for your help! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted September 13, 2017 Author Share Posted September 13, 2017 A footnote: I refilled with the 25-30litres I had removed and noted the gauge position. Then I drove a couple of minutes to add more fuel and decided on 30 litres so I could see the gauge position for that too. Drove back up the hill and onto the drive and diesel is dripping quite a lot. It came from the sender where I'd used a new seal and locking ring from the genuine kit. After trying to tighten it twice I gave up and changed for the seal and ring supplied with the tank. Replaced the 20 litres I'd had to siphon out and this time it seems good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 I had to drop my tank to change the top return pipe, you got off lightly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted September 14, 2017 Author Share Posted September 14, 2017 Oh yes that would be bad, really bad. Actually I haven't proved that it doesn't leak there as I haven't yet driven with it full and sloshing about 😱 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 Mine started leaking from the return pipe with half a tank of fuel, the pipe section outside the tank was rusted through, the new parts cured it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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