Shackleton Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Ok I've been whittling away at the teething problems after the initial success of my 3.5 to 3.9 transplant. In a last ditch before I take the RR to the other end of the country for new years (and then dump a specialist with the problem in shame) I write to you guys to pick your brains. The car is still misfiring - actually chugging would be more onomatopaeic. Heres the low down: I've fed it new; plugs, leads, rotor and dist. cap. That made it much smoother but didn't solve the prob. It runs perfectly at idle, and all the way through the range when at standstill but it chugs like a learner driver in the mid range once under load. It barely happens when cold (but is still noticeable) and is much much worse after sitting in traffic. Does it sound familiar to anyone. Could it be air getting into the induction where it shouldn't? Or could it be the coil? Does anyone have any experience with a knackered coil or knackered ignition amplifier causing symptoms like this? (or a knackered anything causing this) Sorry for posting about it again! Please help! I was proud that on the first startup there were no exhaust blows anywhere and all this jerking has created more then one George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gn3dr Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 What colour are your plugs? If they are black it could be running too rich when hot (given you say that it is almost OK when cold). Check the cold start injector - is it stuck open? It would be a quick check to squeeze of fthe line going to it when hot to see if it makes any difference.(If the 3.9 has a cold start injector? - the 3.5 does anyway) Failing that I'd consider possibly the coolant temp sensor. Generally I would think if it was drawing air then it would tend to run a bit hotter (from running lean) and you would also get the odd backfire. Ok I've been whittling away at the teething problems after the initial success of my 3.5 to 3.9 transplant.In a last ditch before I take the RR to the other end of the country for new years (and then dump a specialist with the problem in shame) I write to you guys to pick your brains. The car is still misfiring - actually chugging would be more onomatopaeic. Heres the low down: I've fed it new; plugs, leads, rotor and dist. cap. That made it much smoother but didn't solve the prob. It runs perfectly at idle, and all the way through the range when at standstill but it chugs like a learner driver in the mid range once under load. It barely happens when cold (but is still noticeable) and is much much worse after sitting in traffic. Does it sound familiar to anyone. Could it be air getting into the induction where it shouldn't? Or could it be the coil? Does anyone have any experience with a knackered coil or knackered ignition amplifier causing symptoms like this? (or a knackered anything causing this) Sorry for posting about it again! Please help! I was proud that on the first startup there were no exhaust blows anywhere and all this jerking has created more then one George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 You've no idea what a help that is! (the 3.9 doesn't have a cold start inj. btw) Oh and there are no backfires, it actually runs really nice unitil it chugs. I'm fairly sure the thermostat isn't opening so obviously thats gonna have an effect on the temp sensor right? The old plugs were all black but had a little burst of white at the tip? Am I right in assuming that if the thermostat isn't opening then the water isn't flowing past the temp sensor - instead its just basically slowly heating to a boil and that could cause a silly reading to go back to my ECU and that causes a miss??? Does that tally with a less pronounced miss when cold? I'm replacing the thermostat either way this weekend... fingers crossed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Attryde Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 The temp sensor shouldn't really be effected by the thermostat IMHO. What can happen is it stops working correctly and thinks that the engine is cold all the time and thus causes to the ECU to overfuel the engine when it warms up causing the bad running. this will IIRC be a seperate sensor to the one for the temp gauge (so the dash gauge will still read correctly.) I can't tell you where the sensor's will be as I have A diesel not a V8. HTH Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 hmm I'm just realising the only temp sender talking to anything is the one that I have hooked up to the original wiring for the 3.5. As in the ECU isn't connected to any temp sensor at all. Should I be scrambling to get that rectified? As far as I know the only temp sensor talking to the ECU is the fuel temp and the only water temp on the lump is a single one on the manifold. There's another coolant sensor on the thermostat elbow but I belive thats for A/C and isn't important. (I don't have A/C) EDIT: no wait maybe there is a water sensor just behind the disributor on the manifold - yeah I'm slowly remebering. And yeah it's connected... so I should change that for a known good unit. My specialist beter have on on the shelf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Attryde Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 IIRC they are not usually expensive and it would help eliminate a part of the system. Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway_Star Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 The 3.9 ECU does use 2 sensors, fuel rail temp and coolant temp. There are in fact 3 on the engine, fuel rail temp, coolant temp to ECU and coolant temp to dash gauge. Now if you're temp gauge is working, and there' sonly one of the coolant sensors connected, it has to be the guage sender that's connected. The fuel rail one is obvious, theo coolant sensors are fairly close together, round about the thermostat housing somewhere. I'd go into the garage and look but it's blowing a hoolie out there just now. Oh aye and the two coolant senders aren't the same either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 RE the hoolie - it passed over us yesterday... it's frickin freezin! Don't wory about looking, I've remembered the sensor in question. I'll replace and fingers crossed! Y'know it' amazing with injecton how the smallest thing will frick up everything. On my injected classic mini, the €3-fiddy coolant expansion tank cap gave up. The resulting excess heat knackered the coolant temp sensor, the H/G got toasted and I ended replacing everything including the boiled expansion tank. The cap was the last thing replaced... I'm begining to think that in this case it was the thermostat that knackered the sensor, the cap got toasted as a result or any combination of the above. I don't think th H/G's have been effected yet cause the plugs weren't clean (I know it's not 100% proof). Anyway send me good vibes thins weekend for a speedy solution. Winter is here and I don't have a garage to heat Thanks fellas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FITZ Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Change the collant tempreture sensor first, thet are often subject to failure. They cost about £10 and take a few minutes to change. Once it''s changed youve eliminated that as a possible cause. See attached file and this may help...... The Coolant Temperature sensor This sensor is located at the front of the inlet manifold in the coolant gallery.It can be mistaken for the Thermotime switch but this one is less bulkier. It gives a signal to the ECU for engine temperature so that the ECU can inject more or less fuel depending on engine temperature. It does not affect the cold start injector! The Thermo-Time switch The thermo time switch controls the operation of the cold start injector. It is basically a pair of contact points, one of which is mounted on a bi-metal strip. A heater coil is fitted around the strip. The system works when the ignition switch is in the "crank" position. Whenever the bi-metal is cold the points are closed and the injector is operated. During the time the contacts are closed the current is heating up the strip. After max.12 secs (depending on ambient temperature) the bi-metal opens the points and injection stops. When the engine is already hot the bi-metal strip prevents the injector to operate during cranking. Notice that the extra air valve uses the same basic principle of a heated bi-metal strip. The cold start injector This injector is located in the top of the plenum chamber. As its name indicates it injects additional fuel when the engine is cold and the engine is being cranked. The cold start injector injects continuously and not intermittently like the other injectors. The injector gets its signal directly from the Thermo Time Switch and is not switched or controlled by the ECU. EFI_Info.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 OK will do... Thanks for the article - mines the though, with Lucas Hotwire system so no cold start injector etc. Y'don't happen to have the same doc for the Hotwire aye? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 OK will do...Thanks for the article - mines the though, with Lucas Hotwire system so no cold start injector etc. Y'don't happen to have the same doc for the Hotwire aye? Get yourself a copy of the Range Rover workshop manual - it's nowhere near as nice and clear as that, but it should have all the info you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Would it be wrong to suggest MegaSquirt at this point? For the money you'll pay a specialist to sort it out you could bin the Lucas carp entirely and have something you can plug a laptop into to *see* what the sensors are doing, if one has gone permanently to 0% or 100% you know it's duff, likewise if it doesn't move with a known rise in engine temp for example. For info, here is the MegaSquirt's temperature sensor lookup table for the Rover sensor, it will tell you what resistances you should be seeing at any given temp: ; Generated 24-04-2003 08:56:25 by MStoolsII ; Rover SD1 V8-Range Rover ; Rover SD1 V8 and Range Rover 3.5 with Lucas 4CU ; Computed Steinhart-Hart coefficients: A=0.00127947 B=0.000259373 C=3.56954e-07 ; 2 Celcius = 4000 ohm ; 74 Celcius = 362 ohm ; 94 Celcius = 212 ohm ; For use with 2490 ohm bias resistor installed at R7. THERMFACTOR: ; ADC Fahrenheit - Celcius - resistance in ohms DB 210T; 0 - sensor failure, use limp home value. DB 255T; 1 500 260 10 ohms DB 255T; 2 413 212 20 ohms DB 255T; 3 369 187 30 ohms DB 255T; 4 340 171 40 ohms DB 255T; 5 318 159 50 ohms DB 255T; 6 301 150 60 ohms DB 255T; 7 287 142 70 ohms DB 255T; 8 276 135 81 ohms DB 255T; 9 265 130 91 ohms DB 255T; 10 257 125 102 ohms DB 255T; 11 249 120 112 ohms DB 255T; 12 241 116 123 ohms DB 255T; 13 235 113 134 ohms DB 255T; 14 229 109 145 ohms DB 255T; 15 224 106 156 ohms DB 255T; 16 218 104 167 ohms DB 253T; 17 214 101 178 ohms DB 249T; 18 209 99 189 ohms DB 245T; 19 205 96 200 ohms DB 241T; 20 201 94 212 ohms DB 237T; 21 198 92 223 ohms DB 233T; 22 194 90 235 ohms DB 230T; 23 191 88 247 ohms DB 227T; 24 187 86 259 ohms DB 224T; 25 184 85 271 ohms DB 221T; 26 181 83 283 ohms DB 218T; 27 179 81 295 ohms DB 215T; 28 176 80 307 ohms DB 213T; 29 173 79 320 ohms DB 210T; 30 171 77 332 ohms DB 208T; 31 168 76 345 ohms DB 206T; 32 166 74 357 ohms DB 203T; 33 164 73 370 ohms DB 201T; 34 162 72 383 ohms DB 199T; 35 159 71 396 ohms DB 197T; 36 157 70 409 ohms DB 195T; 37 155 69 423 ohms DB 193T; 38 153 67 436 ohms DB 191T; 39 152 66 450 ohms DB 189T; 40 150 65 463 ohms DB 187T; 41 148 64 477 ohms DB 186T; 42 146 63 491 ohms DB 184T; 43 144 62 505 ohms DB 182T; 44 143 61 519 ohms DB 181T; 45 141 61 534 ohms DB 179T; 46 139 60 548 ohms DB 177T; 47 138 59 563 ohms DB 176T; 48 136 58 577 ohms DB 174T; 49 135 57 592 ohms DB 173T; 50 133 56 607 ohms DB 171T; 51 132 55 622 ohms DB 170T; 52 130 55 638 ohms DB 168T; 53 129 54 653 ohms DB 167T; 54 128 53 669 ohms DB 166T; 55 126 52 685 ohms DB 164T; 56 125 52 701 ohms DB 163T; 57 124 51 717 ohms DB 162T; 58 122 50 733 ohms DB 160T; 59 121 49 750 ohms DB 159T; 60 120 49 766 ohms DB 158T; 61 118 48 783 ohms DB 157T; 62 117 47 800 ohms DB 156T; 63 116 47 817 ohms DB 154T; 64 115 46 834 ohms DB 153T; 65 114 45 852 ohms DB 152T; 66 113 45 870 ohms DB 151T; 67 111 44 887 ohms DB 150T; 68 110 44 905 ohms DB 149T; 69 109 43 924 ohms DB 148T; 70 108 42 942 ohms DB 147T; 71 107 42 961 ohms DB 145T; 72 106 41 980 ohms DB 144T; 73 105 40 999 ohms DB 143T; 74 104 40 1018 ohms DB 142T; 75 103 39 1038 ohms DB 141T; 76 102 39 1057 ohms DB 140T; 77 101 38 1077 ohms DB 139T; 78 100 38 1097 ohms DB 138T; 79 99 37 1118 ohms DB 137T; 80 98 37 1138 ohms DB 136T; 81 97 36 1159 ohms DB 135T; 82 96 35 1180 ohms DB 134T; 83 95 35 1202 ohms DB 133T; 84 94 34 1223 ohms DB 132T; 85 93 34 1245 ohms DB 132T; 86 92 33 1267 ohms DB 131T; 87 91 33 1289 ohms DB 130T; 88 90 32 1312 ohms DB 129T; 89 89 32 1335 ohms DB 128T; 90 88 31 1358 ohms DB 127T; 91 87 31 1382 ohms DB 126T; 92 87 30 1405 ohms DB 125T; 93 86 30 1429 ohms DB 124T; 94 85 29 1454 ohms DB 123T; 95 84 29 1478 ohms DB 123T; 96 83 28 1503 ohms DB 122T; 97 82 28 1529 ohms DB 121T; 98 81 27 1554 ohms DB 120T; 99 80 27 1580 ohms DB 119T; 100 80 26 1606 ohms DB 118T; 101 79 26 1633 ohms DB 117T; 102 78 26 1660 ohms DB 117T; 103 77 25 1687 ohms DB 116T; 104 76 25 1715 ohms DB 115T; 105 75 24 1743 ohms DB 114T; 106 75 24 1771 ohms DB 113T; 107 74 23 1800 ohms DB 113T; 108 73 23 1829 ohms DB 112T; 109 72 22 1859 ohms DB 111T; 110 71 22 1889 ohms DB 110T; 111 71 21 1919 ohms DB 109T; 112 70 21 1950 ohms DB 109T; 113 69 21 1981 ohms DB 108T; 114 68 20 2013 ohms DB 107T; 115 67 20 2045 ohms DB 106T; 116 67 19 2078 ohms DB 105T; 117 66 19 2111 ohms DB 105T; 118 65 18 2145 ohms DB 104T; 119 64 18 2179 ohms DB 103T; 120 64 18 2213 ohms DB 102T; 121 63 17 2248 ohms DB 101T; 122 62 17 2284 ohms DB 101T; 123 61 16 2320 ohms DB 100T; 124 60 16 2357 ohms DB 99T; 125 60 15 2394 ohms DB 98T; 126 59 15 2432 ohms DB 98T; 127 58 15 2471 ohms DB 97T; 128 57 14 2510 ohms DB 96T; 129 57 14 2549 ohms DB 95T; 130 56 13 2590 ohms DB 95T; 131 55 13 2631 ohms DB 94T; 132 54 12 2672 ohms DB 93T; 133 54 12 2715 ohms DB 92T; 134 53 12 2758 ohms DB 92T; 135 52 11 2801 ohms DB 91T; 136 51 11 2846 ohms DB 90T; 137 51 10 2891 ohms DB 89T; 138 50 10 2937 ohms DB 89T; 139 49 10 2984 ohms DB 88T; 140 48 9 3031 ohms DB 87T; 141 48 9 3080 ohms DB 86T; 142 47 8 3129 ohms DB 86T; 143 46 8 3179 ohms DB 85T; 144 45 7 3230 ohms DB 84T; 145 45 7 3282 ohms DB 83T; 146 44 7 3335 ohms DB 83T; 147 43 6 3389 ohms DB 82T; 148 42 6 3444 ohms DB 81T; 149 42 5 3500 ohms DB 80T; 150 41 5 3557 ohms DB 80T; 151 40 5 3615 ohms DB 79T; 152 39 4 3675 ohms DB 78T; 153 39 4 3735 ohms DB 77T; 154 38 3 3797 ohms DB 77T; 155 37 3 3860 ohms DB 76T; 156 36 2 3924 ohms DB 75T; 157 36 2 3989 ohms DB 74T; 158 35 2 4056 ohms DB 74T; 159 34 1 4124 ohms DB 73T; 160 33 1 4194 ohms DB 72T; 161 33 0 4265 ohms DB 71T; 162 32 -0 4337 ohms DB 71T; 163 31 -0 4412 ohms DB 70T; 164 30 -1 4487 ohms DB 69T; 165 30 -1 4565 ohms DB 68T; 166 29 -2 4644 ohms DB 68T; 167 28 -2 4725 ohms DB 67T; 168 27 -3 4808 ohms DB 66T; 169 27 -3 4893 ohms DB 65T; 170 26 -3 4980 ohms DB 65T; 171 25 -4 5069 ohms DB 64T; 172 24 -4 5160 ohms DB 63T; 173 23 -5 5253 ohms DB 62T; 174 23 -5 5349 ohms DB 61T; 175 22 -6 5447 ohms DB 61T; 176 21 -6 5547 ohms DB 60T; 177 20 -7 5650 ohms DB 59T; 178 19 -7 5756 ohms DB 58T; 179 19 -7 5865 ohms DB 57T; 180 18 -8 5976 ohms DB 57T; 181 17 -8 6090 ohms DB 56T; 182 16 -9 6208 ohms DB 55T; 183 15 -9 6329 ohms DB 54T; 184 15 -10 6453 ohms DB 53T; 185 14 -10 6581 ohms DB 52T; 186 13 -11 6712 ohms DB 52T; 187 12 -11 6848 ohms DB 51T; 188 11 -12 6987 ohms DB 50T; 189 10 -12 7130 ohms DB 49T; 190 9 -13 7278 ohms DB 48T; 191 9 -13 7431 ohms DB 47T; 192 8 -14 7589 ohms DB 46T; 193 7 -14 7751 ohms DB 45T; 194 6 -14 7919 ohms DB 45T; 195 5 -15 8092 ohms DB 44T; 196 4 -15 8272 ohms DB 43T; 197 3 -16 8457 ohms DB 42T; 198 2 -17 8649 ohms DB 41T; 199 1 -17 8848 ohms DB 40T; 200 0 -18 9055 ohms DB 39T; 201 -1 -18 9268 ohms DB 38T; 202 -2 -19 9490 ohms DB 37T; 203 -3 -19 9721 ohms DB 36T; 204 -3 -20 9960 ohms DB 35T; 205 -4 -20 10209 ohms DB 34T; 206 -6 -21 10468 ohms DB 33T; 207 -7 -21 10738 ohms DB 32T; 208 -8 -22 11020 ohms DB 31T; 209 -9 -23 11313 ohms DB 30T; 210 -10 -23 11620 ohms DB 29T; 211 -11 -24 11941 ohms DB 28T; 212 -12 -24 12276 ohms DB 27T; 213 -13 -25 12628 ohms DB 25T; 214 -14 -26 12997 ohms DB 24T; 215 -15 -26 13384 ohms DB 23T; 216 -16 -27 13791 ohms DB 22T; 217 -18 -28 14219 ohms DB 21T; 218 -19 -28 14671 ohms DB 19T; 219 -20 -29 15148 ohms DB 18T; 220 -21 -30 15651 ohms DB 17T; 221 -23 -30 16185 ohms DB 16T; 222 -24 -31 16751 ohms DB 14T; 223 -25 -32 17352 ohms DB 13T; 224 -27 -33 17992 ohms DB 11T; 225 -28 -33 18675 ohms DB 10T; 226 -29 -34 19405 ohms DB 9T; 227 -31 -35 20187 ohms DB 7T; 228 -32 -36 21027 ohms DB 6T; 229 -34 -37 21931 ohms DB 4T; 230 -36 -38 22908 ohms DB 2T; 231 -37 -38 23966 ohms DB 1T; 232 -39 -39 25117 ohms DB 0T; 233 -41 -40 26371 ohms DB 0T; 234 -43 -41 27746 ohms DB 0T; 235 -44 -42 29258 ohms DB 0T; 236 -46 -44 30928 ohms DB 0T; 237 -48 -45 32785 ohms DB 0T; 238 -51 -46 34860 ohms DB 0T; 239 -53 -47 37194 ohms DB 0T; 240 -55 -48 39840 ohms DB 0T; 241 -58 -50 42864 ohms DB 0T; 242 -60 -51 46352 ohms DB 0T; 243 -63 -53 50422 ohms DB 0T; 244 -66 -55 55233 ohms DB 0T; 245 -70 -56 61005 ohms DB 0T; 246 -73 -58 68060 ohms DB 0T; 247 -77 -61 76879 ohms DB 0T; 248 -82 -63 88217 ohms DB 0T; 249 -86 -66 103335 ohms DB 0T; 250 -92 -69 124500 ohms DB 0T; 251 -99 -73 156248 ohms DB 0T; 252 -108 -78 209160 ohms DB 0T; 253 -119 -84 314985 ohms DB 0T; 254 -138 -94 632460 ohms DB 210T; 255 - sensor failure, use limp home value. 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Shackleton Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 Not wrong at all mate, it's just that this build was a first for me and even though the mech's and specialists that have seen what I've done have been impressed and said it's a lovely clean job the reality is it took a lot out of me. I started in late August and only got it going about 3 weeks ago. In the mean time I had to do things to my very original car that I really didn't want to but the time pressure had me thinking all wrong and just wanting to get it done. So basically my enthusiasm is dwindling big time (and I have a **** lot of it - you know how it works) so I just need to get through the winter and to some decent weather, get the chance to rebuild the enthusiasm and my wallet and then I'll be pestering your ass about MS MS is almost a must for me as I'll feel much better knowing that I have a brand new, 100% diagnosable management system instead of a largely unknown 17 year old, specialist diagnostics equipment needing one. - thats all assuming the MS isn't doable from what you get told in an email and for about 3p? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Not quite 3p, a built V3 costs £225 and a wiring tail to make life easier would be £30. Fuel maps & settings are already out there so no faffing about required as long as you can read a wiring diagram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 So £255 gives me something that I can just plug in? Thats about €380 - do-able. But when I can bring myself to get into that kind of change... Or maybe I'll go TD5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANO3528 Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Or maybe I'll go TD5 Or maybe I'll go delete your account you blasphemer! B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 Or maybe I'll go delete your account you blasphemer! B) didn't realise that TD5 was a punishable sin! Ok I continue F'ing the atmos in the A with the beautiful but carbon happy V8. - Thats the real reason I'd love to go diesel, that and getting down the local chippy for some free go go juice... *hippy mode off* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 It won't plug in - you need to cut the Lucas ECU connector off (or for a bit extra if you can find a dead Lucas ECU I can make an adapter cable) but it's only joining wires together, here's Dan's halfway through: We took the approach of crimping a spade connector on to each wire to join it, you could do it by soldering together or even soldering the wires straight to the ECU connector, however that's not massive fun trying to solder in a vehicle and if the loom is old it can give variable results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally V8 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Have you checked that you have the correct plug onto each sensor ? It is possible to swop the fuel rail temp sensor plug for the coolant temp sensor.This confuses the engine ecu as from cold both will read the same,but soon the coolant temp will be up to 90 odd degrees but the rail temp is usually in the 30's.Swopped around plugs just make the ecu think the engine is still cold, run wide pulse widths for the injectors hence your rich mixture and chugging. Dont give up on the 14cux system it is a very good reliable system,capable of closed or open loop control with proper control of idle speed as well.For the first time ever a Rover V8 ran properly,giving good power and emissions for long periods - something never achieved with previous systems,either efi or carbs. It is also very cheap to repair,and with the correct info easy to faultfind.Megasquirt is an interesting project to play with,but using s/h bits from breakers can be just as fullfilling.Lastly,even tho you can use Testbook to read codes from it and do live data readings,I rarely bother with it as the trusty Fluke meter is just as quick.(Not that they give many problems,excepting AFM's blown up by LPG backfires) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted December 15, 2006 Author Share Posted December 15, 2006 I'll double check Ally but I used masking tape and biro to mark every connection as I removed the loom to make sure I didn't mistake anything... still my brain, masking tape and biro are not infallable Fridge - I'm glad you said they're spade connections, at first glance I saw scotch blocks and was cowering! Thats some work right there, you're some man for one man. So a knackered temp sensor / rich mixture can really cause a motor to chug? I'd started to convince myself that it couldn't! Here's hoping. We'll all find out tomorrow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Dont give up on the 14cux system it is a very good reliable system,capable of closed or open loop control Heading off on a slight tangent, was the 14CUX system ever installed in a Range Rover in an open loop configuration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally V8 Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Yes,in UK market RR's from about 89-92 and in some Discovery 3.5 v8's from similar years too.Not sure about other world markets,I expect Saudi and middle East market ones were open loop.It is simple to change from closed to open loop,just swap the tune resistor situated in the main engine ecu loom about a foot from the ecu plug,for a market territory that does not use cats/oxygen sensors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Yes,in UK market RR's from about 89-92 and in some Discovery 3.5 v8's from similar years too.Not sure about other world markets,I expect Saudi and middle East market ones were open loop.It is simple to change from closed to open loop,just swap the tune resistor situated in the main engine ecu loom about a foot from the ecu plug,for a market territory that does not use cats/oxygen sensors. Ah! That explains why there were no Lambda sensors on the one I took the exhaust off this week I'm selling it to Rogue Trooper so I was a bit concerned someone had been up to some bodgery, but it's an '89, so that would be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS26 Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Yes,in UK market RR's from about 89-92 and in some Discovery 3.5 v8's from similar years too.Not sure about other world markets,I expect Saudi and middle East market ones were open loop.It is simple to change from closed to open loop,just swap the tune resistor situated in the main engine ecu loom about a foot from the ecu plug,for a market territory that does not use cats/oxygen sensors. Ahh! (light goes on) for years I have been wondering what that tune selection resistor does... So is this another point that would need checking in case of troublesome running symptoms - that the tune resistor is ok? Rog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted December 16, 2006 Author Share Posted December 16, 2006 *makes buble buble noise with finger between lips* Fellas I have no clue what your talking about but I'm getting a serious sinking feeling. My 3.9 has no lambdas/cats and a tune resistor thingy under the seat - what does that mean? Oh let me guess, it means theres another varible in my quest for a sweet running engine EDIT: and it's certainly a UK car as the front of the original rad was salt mangled - we don't salt our roads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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