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Braking problem, dont know how to continue

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I bought a new aftermarket vac pump I while ago to replace a suspect pump. The new one was worse than the original. So the supplier replaced it for me the second one was just as bad if not worse. I ended up fitting a second hand vac pump.

Mike

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13 hours ago, Ed Poore said:

At the risk of going off topic - what do you consider best in class? You mention Land Rover but from having owned a 3.6TDV8 L322 I'd have thought that's pretty much as best in class as you can get for an off-road vehicle. You did mention Land Rover not Defender :rolleyes:...

you got me there :D  worded the frase wrongly, meant more or less compared to general cars and from what im used to. I work as a Tech at a Mercedes and AMG center, And that compared to a defender is quite a big differance, altough i can inmagine the RR has good stopping Power aswell

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13 hours ago, Ed Poore said:

It certainly sounds like it. I've just had the new vacuum pump delivered for mine and picking up a gasket at lunch today. I'm unlikely to have time until the weekend to replace it but I can run the same tests you your father has so see if it's exhibiting the same symptoms. Can then let you know if it fixes it :lol:

That would be appreciated then i know whhat i am in for or if i need to keep looking

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10 hours ago, Snagger said:

If it's blowing, it sounds like you have high positive pressure in the crank case.  That suggests either a blocked breather or a lot of combustion gas getting to where it shouldn't, ie cracked gasket, head or piston, or severe bore and ring wear.

OK, Didnt Think of that the breather could be Another reason, I know it leaks a Little and there is quite a lot (more then i would like) oil getting back into the inlet manifold. dont Think it is head or pistons because it doesnt smoke and no loss of water or gases into the coolant

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11 hours ago, Snagger said:

If it's blowing, it sounds like you have high positive pressure in the crank case.  That suggests either a blocked breather or a lot of combustion gas getting to where it shouldn't, ie cracked gasket, head or piston, or severe bore and ring wear.

Oh Another question when you say brether do you mean th squared box ERR506 or the thunnel/black cylinder ERR1471 ? could be good to know so we are talking about the same thing and what i may need to order or change :)

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3 hours ago, miketomcat said:

I bought a new aftermarket vac pump I while ago to replace a suspect pump. The new one was worse than the original. So the supplier replaced it for me the second one was just as bad if not worse. I ended up fitting a second hand vac pump.

Mike

Annoyingly a day or so after ordering mine I had the offer of not only a second hand vac pump FOC but an entire 300Tdi engine :blink:. Don't have the space but I know where it is now! :D

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1 hour ago, SV110 said:

altough i can inmagine the RR has good stopping Power aswell

In one word, it's painful.

There's an oh **** mode as well if you pull the handbrake while moving (car does as much as it to stop). Never plucked up the courage before I sold it as someone who had been through both a brick wall and tried it out said the brick wall was infinitely more preferable.

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11 hours ago, SV110 said:

Oh Another question when you say brether do you mean th squared box ERR506 or the thunnel/black cylinder ERR1471 ? could be good to know so we are talking about the same thing and what i may need to order or change :)

The breather is the cylinder on the side.  They're empty and very simple, so unless cracked, don't need replacement.  Washing the unit and pipes through with solvent is useful.  A little oil vapour always gets through to contaminate the induction system, but it shouldn't be much.  Heavy breathing is a sign of engine wear or damage and is often not accompanied by fluid losses or contamination - don't rely on those as indicators.  Heavy breathing and pressurisation of the crank case are reliable indicators when present.

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12 hours ago, Ed Poore said:

In one word, it's painful.

There's an oh **** mode as well if you pull the handbrake while moving (car does as much as it to stop). Never plucked up the courage before I sold it as someone who had been through both a brick wall and tried it out said the brick wall was infinitely more preferable.

I've tried it from 70mph it actually stops quicker than if you stamp on the brakes. But make sure your seatbelt doesn't have any slack in it.

Mike

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7 hours ago, Snagger said:

The breather is the cylinder on the side.  They're empty and very simple, so unless cracked, don't need replacement.  Washing the unit and pipes through with solvent is useful.  A little oil vapour always gets through to contaminate the induction system, but it shouldn't be much.  Heavy breathing is a sign of engine wear or damage and is often not accompanied by fluid losses or contamination - don't rely on those as indicators.  Heavy breathing and pressurisation of the crank case are reliable indicators when present.

Thanks, i thought the breather has a mesh of some sort to collect some of the stuff. anyway that does make the faulttraching a Little easier. About the vapour i know there is some but i have the impression it is more then it should. OK, didnt know that or have forgotten about it from when we had it in school. it doesnt sound good so lets hope that it helps and otherwise i will have to investigate some more worst case swap the Engine and do an overhaul of the current one.

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Right after a very quick test drive it looks like the vacuum pump has sorted quite a lot of the issues.

Dogs jumped in for the ride so didn't slam on the anchors but the brakes definitely felt better. Think I need to replace my pipe though, it looks like it's had better days.

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29 minutes ago, Ed Poore said:

Right after a very quick test drive it looks like the vacuum pump has sorted quite a lot of the issues.

Dogs jumped in for the ride so didn't slam on the anchors but the brakes definitely felt better. Think I need to replace my pipe though, it looks like it's had better days.

Alright good news. keeps my hopes up that channging the pump may sort my problems as well. wont be untill the chrismas weekend. but will definatly post the result :)

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Hopefully you have fixed it.  If the vacuum pump is not working at all, then it would let some of the engine breathing out through its pipework when disconnected.  But that should be low pressure.  If it's high pressure, then my previous comments apply.  I would expect a bad pump to provide enough airflow to overcome the crank case pressure, so only the breather expelled crank gasses, even if the pump isn't strong enough to provide useful vacuum to the servo.  If the innards of the pump were completely stuffed, though, like missing vanes on the 12j-200tdi pump (or seized in their retracted position), or a mashed 300 pump with a seized piston at the retracted end of its stroke, then that would allow crank breathing.

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Thanks for the information, i wont have time untill the christmas weekend. I will do over the tests that my dad did to get a picture för my self of how it feels. Since its hard to without actually done them myself.  I will comment on how it went and what the result is, still hoping for the best. It could be that the pump is seized since it has gothenburg worse över time and that she (the 110) has been left standing for a longer period of time.  I have spareparts so it's a matter of switching the components and try. 

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Finally had some time to do some work on the old lady, did the previous checks my self and same result as Before no vacuum to the servo, good news though that the air that came out of the vaccum pump wasnt any high pressure but just barely above no pressure.

Changed the pump and breather. (not the hardest thing to do but not very pleasant when its -12 in the air) when starting the Engine you can now feel that the pump is acutally sucking. although not that much you can basically fell it on you thumb but not really pinching orbig pressure. how much should there be?

The servo still doesnt seem to build up any/a lot of vacuum. vill try and let the car run a litlle longer tomorrow to see if it gets better and also check the checkvalve. Another thought could the servo/membran have seized up by not having any vaccum or do i have to bleed/pressurise it in some way?

worst case i will pick the brake servo from my spareparts car and try that lets just hope the weather will be warmer :D

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It sounds like the engine is OK.  The vac pump should have a pretty strong suck if you put you thumb over the hose, but not painful or difficult to remove.

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7 minutes ago, Snagger said:

It sounds like the engine is OK.  The vac pump should have a pretty strong suck if you put you thumb over the hose, but not painful or difficult to remove.

alright , cant say it was proper strong, but will compare with my dads 200tdi so i know what to compare to. it seems at least that im slowly getting the source of the problem which is quite nice

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Continued the work on the defender. Started the day by inspecting the check valve on the servo (hell of work to get out) which was working. After that i compared the the sucktion with my dads defender which had a much stronger suction. something was still not right.

The last owner had installed a aftermarket cruisecontrol operated on vaccum, decided to block it of. suction got a Little beter so decided to replace the hose with one from my spare parts car. and had full suction again. with the hose attatched pedal works like it should again! aint that a proper christmas present :) seems like the problem was a bad vacuumpump and hose.

Will have a testdrive tomorrow to make sure Everything works and either come back with moer info or make a summery of what happened, which test i did and what was faulty so someone else may have some help from it. anyway thanks everyone for your help!

One last question could the vcuumhose from any universialhose or does it need to be a specifik one?

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The hose is just a hose - the only thing 'special' about it is that it needs to be a vacuum-rated hose. I've seen a case where someone used a piece of ordinary rubber heater-hose for a vacuum-line in place of proper vacuum-hose, and once the underbonnet heat softened the rubber a bit, it got sucked flat!

 

This is the typoe I use:  http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/product.php/1062/vacuum-servo-hose

 

 

Edited by Tanuki

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Problem Solved!

Had a test drive today and the brakes/servo work as they should again. and on top of that the turboboost has come back again aswell. here comes a short summery of the problems what i have checked, what turned out to be faulty and how it was fixed so that if anyone who has the same problem and cant be botherd Reading the whole tread or searchinng for specific info still can take help from this post.

Problem:

Car didnt have any brakes/brakes failed to slow down the car more then 10 kph untill the braking Power stopt increasing whereby the car kept "Rolling" to a stop. also car was kind of sluggish no boost from turbo.

Checked (inkl my result):

stuck calipers - not stuck but pistons where rusty tried first to grease up the pistons which didnt work later chanced the calipers but didnt do any differance.

bleed brake at multipule occasions to makes sure there was no air in the system

When stepping on the brakepedal, pedal was hard and didnt sink when starting the car.

When taking hose of the servo unit no hissing/blowing sound that pressure wass released

checked suction on the vacuumline no suction at all

checked return valve in the servo should only blow air from the servoside - worked fine

Compared suction between two vehicles

Compared with two different Vacuumhoses

Replaced:

Changed Vaccumpump (second hand genuine) the car gor a Little more suction but not halv of what a propper had. Still no pressure in servo. Checked and changed vacuumline due to ruling out Connection to aftermarket Cruise Control. changed to a single line from pump to servo. pedal sinks/ pressure back in servo. During testdrive the brakes work and car is not sluggish anymore and turbo seem to have pressure back.

 

Thanks to all helping/comming up with ideas and telling me what to check.

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This is great!! It's always useful for people to come back with a summary of the problem, what they tried, and what finally resolved it.

Share the knowledge, share the learning, share the experience - that's the truly wonderful thing about these forums.

"The answer is out there!"

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Yes, much thanks, always good to hear someone really getting tothe bottom of an issue, rather than wiping out and selling the truck on to someone else!

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1 hour ago, Bowie69 said:

Yes, much thanks, always good to hear someone really getting tothe bottom of an issue, rather than wiping out and selling the truck on to someone else!

All the time and effort (not to say Money) i`ve put in to the landy it would be a shame to give up. finding Another one for a good price is hard here in sweden  Although this one was pretty annoying and frustrating at times.

On top of that i Always find it rather annoying when you are searching on the forums for a solution t problem and you find something very simular but without a solution or instruction what has been done or resolved the problem.

So decided to write a summery to help and make it easier for other enthusiast. Glad you guys like it :)

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Well done.  I can't fathom why fixing the vacuum system would affect the turbo charger unless some of the hoses were crossed and misconnected, though!

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