Has this been converted?

[Swimboy]

Good evening all, I’m still after my first defender and would like one that has always had rear seats so to speak (station wagon?) Is this one a converted “van” that has had the rear windows and seats put in after leaving the factory please?

https://www.bktmotorgroup.co.uk/used/cars/land-rover-defender-90-90-td5-county-hard-top-10038/

 

[Junglie]

It *looks* original to me, but I'm relatively new to this.

Ask them for the chassis number and you'll know for sure as there are plenty of free decoders available online that will tell you the original designation.

[Swimboy]

2 minutes ago, Junglie said:

It *looks* original to me, but I'm relatively new to this.

Ask them for the chassis number and you'll know for sure as there are plenty of free decoders available online that will tell you the original designation.

Thank you for your thoughts. I wondered if the seats should be the fold down type and thought it should have a full length roof lining which I couldn’t fully tell from the photos. I’ll give them a call tomorrow 👍

[dave88sw]

It's a conversion, the lack of internal plastic window surround trims says it's not a county station wagon, it also wouldn't have had rear benches at that age, most likely 4 individual tip up seats.

That was originally a van with the county pack (full headlining and cloth seats with alpine windows).

[Swimboy]

3 minutes ago, dave88sw said:

It's a conversion, the lack of internal plastic window surround trims says it's not a county station wagon, it also wouldn't have had rear benches at that age, most likely 4 individual tip up seats.

That was originally a van with the county pack (full headlining and cloth seats with alpine windows).

Thank you - I thought the same regarding the seats. Ah ok, I’m still getting my head around specs.

[dave88sw]

There are many variations despite there being very few actual options on Defenders.  The County Station Wagons will always command a premium over converted vans though.  Not least because they tended to be registered as private cars rather than commercials, which is beneficial in a lot of clean air zones, which will charge commercial vehicles significantly more.

Station wagons will always have the internal window surround trims and a full headlining.  They will also have matching trim throughout (although of course it can be changed by previous owners) The one you linked has original techno cloth in the front and black vinyl in the back.

[Swimboy]

7 minutes ago, dave88sw said:

There are many variations despite there being very few actual options on Defenders.  The County Station Wagons will always command a premium over converted vans though.  Not least because they tended to be registered as private cars rather than commercials, which is beneficial in a lot of clean air zones, which will charge commercial vehicles significantly more.

Station wagons will always have the internal window surround trims and a full headlining.  They will also have matching trim throughout (although of course it can be changed by previous owners) The one you linked has original techno cloth in the front and black vinyl in the back.

Oh, I see - I’m learning..! So vans aren’t to be avoided if they have been converted as such. Do you think the one I linked is a good price given it’s description and in the current market (if all is well when I view it)?

[dave88sw]

Well, to be honest, the conversion of the vehicle you linked to consists of fitting side windows (not difficult, you just have to have a steady hand and patience to get the hole the right size) and the bench seats.  The rest is as it left the factory.  I should add, at that age, a genuine station wagon would probably have had the centre bulkhead removed (with a structural bar in its place).  There's no huge upside to the bulkhead being removed but it does make the cab feel a lot more open.

There's no reason to avoid them if they've been done well and the fact that they are registered as a van doesn't bother you.  The one you linked is a nice colour and looks a straight and honest vehicle, it's a little expensive but any vehicle with a dealer will be priced a little higher, they have to make a living and they have to give a minimum 3 month warranty.  When you consider the low mileage, it's probably a reasonable price.

[dave88sw]

Also, worthy of note on that particular car, it's a fairly late model TD5 and has electric windows and central locking, which will be fairly rare options.  It also has the later style doors all round, the rear one changed in 2002 to a one piece all steel design which was much stronger and more resistant to rust and the fronts changed around 2005, again, pressed steel with steel skin and much less rust prone. 

[Swimboy]

11 minutes ago, dave88sw said:

Well, to be honest, the conversion of the vehicle you linked to consists of fitting side windows (not difficult, you just have to have a steady hand and patience to get the hole the right size) and the bench seats.  The rest is as it left the factory.  I should add, at that age, a genuine station wagon would probably have had the centre bulkhead removed (with a structural bar in its place).  There's no huge upside to the bulkhead being removed but it does make the cab feel a lot more open.

There's no reason to avoid them if they've been done well and the fact that they are registered as a van doesn't bother you.  The one you linked is a nice colour and looks a straight and honest vehicle, it's a little expensive but any vehicle with a dealer will be priced a little higher, they have to make a living and they have to give a minimum 3 month warranty.  When you consider the low mileage, it's probably a reasonable price.

Thank you. I’d be happy with it being converted and the rest being as it left the factory. Do you know what colour it is off the top of your head please? I agree, it does seem a tad expensive but not a million miles away given the warranty and low mileage like you said. With it being 2005 it will have the “better” TD5 engine shouldn’t it?

[SteveG]

What’s the verdict on this one - factory or converted?….

 

[dave88sw]

7 hours ago, Swimboy said:

Thank you. I’d be happy with it being converted and the rest being as it left the factory. Do you know what colour it is off the top of your head please? I agree, it does seem a tad expensive but not a million miles away given the warranty and low mileage like you said. With it being 2005 it will have the “better” TD5 engine shouldn’t it?

I believe it's Cairns blue, it would have the 15P engine which is said to be better yes.  The fuel rail design in the head was slightly better meaning they are less prone to cracking and allowing fuel into the oil, which was a common problem on earlier engines.  It can still happen though in rare cases, an AMC head, although fairly expensive is a lasting cure. 

[dave88sw]

SteveG, that's a difficult one, it certainly has a station wagon roof and side panels but i would guess they have been fitted later along with the bulkhead removal bar, simply because it has tie down hooks on the side of the tub and a grommet in the rear capping where the LH antiluce would have been fitted, suggesting it was originally a truck cab.  The only way to know for sure would be to check the chassis no or it's registration document.

[Swimboy]

51 minutes ago, dave88sw said:

I believe it's Cairns blue, it would have the 15P engine which is said to be better yes.  The fuel rail design in the head was slightly better meaning they are less prone to cracking and allowing fuel into the oil, which was a common problem on earlier engines.  It can still happen though in rare cases, an AMC head, although fairly expensive is a lasting cure. 

Ok, thank you. I think I’ve seen a Cairns on the road before and it looked nice. Ah right, that’s good to know. I’m off to have a look at it today - any particular areas on this year/model to look out for please? 

[smallfry]

SteveG I would agree with Dave88sw, was originally a truck cab. Rear tub would not have had welded on cleats by this time. My original 1986 90SW does have them, even though it has always been a Station Wagon

The rear linings look as though they are rigid plastic ? Not at all sure about this, but did they change them from the earlier flock type stuff on card/hardboard ?

Is this a test ?

[SteveG]

7 hours ago, dave88sw said:

SteveG, that's a difficult one, it certainly has a station wagon roof and side panels but i would guess they have been fitted later along with the bulkhead removal bar, simply because it has tie down hooks on the side of the tub and a grommet in the rear capping where the LH antiluce would have been fitted, suggesting it was originally a truck cab.  The only way to know for sure would be to check the chassis no or it's registration document.

Correct - truck cab initially, then a van, and then a station wagon just before selling…

 

 

[SteveG]

34 minutes ago, smallfry said:

SteveG I would agree with Dave88sw, was originally a truck cab. Rear tub would not have had welded on cleats by this time. My original 1986 90SW does have them, even though it has always been a Station Wagon

The rear linings look as though they are rigid plastic ? Not at all sure about this, but did they change them from the earlier flock type stuff on card/hardboard ?

Is this a test ?

Yes, by the time of TD5 factory ones were like this. Was it a test, in a way no, as the TC soft top/tonneau tabs give it away so easily, but also to show that if you buy and fit the right parts it would be hard to spot a converted interior from pics.😉😉

 

[Swimboy]

24 minutes ago, SteveG said:

Yes, by the time of TD5 factory ones were like this. Was it a test, in a way no, as the TC soft top/tonneau tabs give it away so easily, but also to show that if you buy and fit the right parts it would be hard to spot a converted interior from pics.😉😉

 

That’s interesting - yours looks lovely. The one I linked above has has a new replacement front panel and needs 4 new tyres, and he isn’t willing to budge on the price, so it’s a no unfortunately.

[landroversforever]

The one in the original post also has the indicators and side lights the wrong way up in the front for some reason. 

[ThreePointFive]

21 hours ago, SteveG said:

Correct - truck cab initially, then a van, and then a station wagon just before selling…

 

 

Can't have been a truck cab for long, I am sure I saw it as a van in 2008 in Somerset. Always liked how well prepared it was underneath while looking standard.

[Swimboy]

2 hours ago, landroversforever said:

The one in the original post also has the indicators and side lights the wrong way up in the front for some reason. 

Very good spot..! It’s the little things like that, that is great about the knowledgeable people on here.

[landroversforever]

Think I just need to get out more