Mossberg Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 Following on from my thread of caliper removal, today I took off the left hand front caliper. It unbolt and the pipe unscrewed - what a relief. However, on taking the hub off I looked at the stub axle and my thoughts are it would be worth changing it. Where the actual bearings are seems OK, but the area between the bearings and the area where the oil seal fits look a bit worse for wear (well corrosion). I presume you guys would recommend changing it. The hub looks a bit more serviceable as the bearings seem to be a good fit in there. It looks to have a bit of corrosion between the bearings but I can't see that being a cause for concern. Again I would appreciate the knowledge of your experience as to if this is OK. Regarding the stub axle, this I believe is from a 10 spline discovery. The stub axle has a groove cut into it (like a keyway). Does anyone know the correct part number for this stub axle kit as I can't use a chassis number for reference. Thanks as always for your help. Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 Yes 100% you need to change that stub axle or it will damage your new seal. Not sure on the part number sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uninformed Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 Yes definitely replace that stub axle. Unfortunately you can’t just say groove or flat for locking washer. RRC had 3 different bearing spacing, Defenders and I PRESUME Disco 1 had 2 different bearing spacing My guess looking at your pic is early wide spacing stub and again I’ll assume Def and D1 are same but I would definitely cross reference part numbers. I would only buy genuine as they are/were forged and from good steel. AM I wouldn’t know what I was getting btw I have no idea the environment your vehicle is in but it looks horrendous 😬 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 Go to here http://www.retroanaconda.com/landrover/2010/02/land-rover-defender-110-parts-book/ Section 5, page 420, item 1 is the stub axle you need. Same as my 1989 110CSW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossberg Posted February 2, 2022 Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 Thanks Eightpot. 28 minutes ago, uninformed said: btw I have no idea the environment your vehicle is in but it looks horrendous 😬 Not sure of where it was before I got it but I agree with how the axles look. The chassis doesn't look as bad as the axles thankfully, but still work to do on it. The truck was one of the cheapest I could get and I think every panel is dented. But it's a 300tdi and I enjoy the drive. I am slowly doing repairs but most of the body will stay similar to how it is now - its an anti theft device! BTW, it cost me 5.4k - overpriced, but aren't they all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uninformed Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 33 minutes ago, western said: Go to here http://www.retroanaconda.com/landrover/2010/02/land-rover-defender-110-parts-book/ Section 5, page 420, item 1 is the stub axle you need. Same as my 1989 110CSW. Can you confirm it’s the same stub axle as the 200Tdi Disco 1? Good chance it is, but as Mossberg thinks the axle assembly is from that it would be good confirm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uninformed Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 8 minutes ago, Mossberg said: Thanks Eightpot. Not sure of where it was before I got it but I agree with how the axles look. The chassis doesn't look as bad as the axles thankfully, but still work to do on it. The truck was one of the cheapest I could get and I think every panel is dented. But it's a 300tdi and I enjoy the drive. I am slowly doing repairs but most of the body will stay similar to how it is now - its an anti theft device! BTW, it cost me 5.4k - overpriced, but aren't they all? LRs come with dents from the factory so it doesn’t hurt to have a few lol. And yes unfortunately they are getting silly prices now. Even the UK market pushed up the Aus market as they were buying up Series and importing to UK. Sadly I don’t think I’ll be able to afford a Series again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uninformed Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 @Mossberg do your CVs have one piece drive flange and stub shaft or separate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigi_H Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Hint: Switch to the TD5 wheel bearing system with spacer if you renew all parts anyway. This will last longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uninformed Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 25 minutes ago, Sigi_H said: Hint: Switch to the TD5 wheel bearing system with spacer if you renew all parts anyway. This will last longer. I don’t think it’s possible. If there is a set distance spacer that goes between the inner and outer wheel bearings, then it will only suit the later style stub axle and hub. The earlier have more separation between bearings. The early system is fine if set properly. The later is to speed up production and be a bit dummy proof for production and servicing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 10 hours ago, uninformed said: Can you confirm it’s the same stub axle as the 200Tdi Disco 1? Good chance it is, but as Mossberg thinks the axle assembly is from that it would be good confirm. No I can't because LRcat.com doesn't give a part number for the front stub axle its item 18 in http://new.lrcat.com/#!/1231/25878/25897/1946/26063 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uninformed Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 minute ago, western said: No I can't because LRcat.com doesn't give a part number for the front stub axle its item 18 in http://new.lrcat.com/#!/1231/25878/25897/1946/26063 That’s where I looked also once I got home. Bit of a bugger. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigi_H Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 56 minutes ago, uninformed said: I don’t think it’s possible. If there is a set distance spacer that goes between the inner and outer wheel bearings, then it will only suit the later style stub axle and hub. The earlier have more separation between bearings. The early system is fine if set properly. The later is to speed up production and be a bit dummy proof for production and servicing. Absolutely not. I made it on my OneTen MY83. Where the bearing slips on, a spacer will slip on either. I made my spacers on my lathe, but they had the same size like stock spacers. It is not to speed up production, the production will even be slower. But it is self explaining in my eyes, that the fixed inner race of the bearing will elongate the lifetime a lot. If you look at your stub axle, you will see that the inner race have turned. The seal will have to work with this movement and will shortly let water in. Then everything is going to be killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossberg Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 3 hours ago, uninformed said: @Mossberg do your CVs have one piece drive flange and stub shaft or separate? The drive flange is its own piece but I believe it is thicker than the later ones so that part of the drive shaft must be longer to. I know that with alloys you either need wheel spacers or the plastic cap over the end shaft pokes through the centre of the wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossberg Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 hour ago, western said: No I can't because LRcat.com doesn't give a part number for the front stub axle its item 18 in http://new.lrcat.com/#!/1231/25878/25897/1946/26063 Hi Western. I have ordered the stub axle kit today. The guy from Buckley Brothers (the parts supplier I use) looked through the different ones and said its the only one with that groove for the lock washers. He said the earlier discos- 89 to 93. I think that kit has a bush rather than a bearing. Can that be fitted on the bench or does it need a press (as I don't have one). Thanks for your help so far pal. Mick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uninformed Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 47 minutes ago, Mossberg said: The drive flange is its own piece but I believe it is thicker than the later ones so that part of the drive shaft must be longer to. I know that with alloys you either need wheel spacers or the plastic cap over the end shaft pokes through the centre of the wheel. It may indeed be a 90 axle assembly. It is my understanding that the 90 (200Tdi era) used a AEU2522 CV with separate drive flange where as the Disco 1 of that era (same wheel bearings spacing) used a one piece stub shaft with integral flange. it should have a big Railko bush at top of swivel housing as the D1 had the standard TRB. 90/110 front stub axle from that era is FRC4320. The bronze thrust bush for the CV should be able to be fitted on the bench. If you are going to run the CV stub shaft oil seal and do not want to heat the stub axle, put the bronze bush in the freezer. Use an appropriate size socket and drift it in nice and true. Making sure the stub axle is well supported and won’t move around is the best help to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uninformed Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Sigi_H said: Absolutely not. I made it on my OneTen MY83. Where the bearing slips on, a spacer will slip on either. I made my spacers on my lathe, but they had the same size like stock spacers. It is not to speed up production, the production will even be slower. But it is self explaining in my eyes, that the fixed inner race of the bearing will elongate the lifetime a lot. If you look at your stub axle, you will see that the inner race have turned. The seal will have to work with this movement and will shortly let water in. Then everything is going to be killed. I’ve never seen the Td5 set up and couldn’t find an image online. So I’m not quite sure. I put over 300,000km on my original wheel bearings, oil lubricated and standard pre load nut method. They were in excellent condition and the only oil leak I ever had was one stub axle that had a bad seal surface from early on. Many 100s of thousands of LR use this standard method and it’s fine. Each to their own… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigi_H Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 This is TD5 setup: https://www.lrworkshop.com/diagrams/land-rover-defender-axles-suspension/rear-axle/hubs-and-driveshafts_44802 Major difference is the spacer (No 15) and the nut (No 14). I know, that the old setup will do. There are advantages as well. You can even "adjust" them in the field. But the new one eliminates the need for that adjustments. From a engineering point of view, the new one is better for sure, but that does not mean, that the old one is bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uninformed Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 13 minutes ago, Sigi_H said: This is TD5 setup: https://www.lrworkshop.com/diagrams/land-rover-defender-axles-suspension/rear-axle/hubs-and-driveshafts_44802 Major difference is the spacer (No 15) and the nut (No 14). I know, that the old setup will do. There are advantages as well. You can even "adjust" them in the field. But the new one eliminates the need for that adjustments. From a engineering point of view, the new one is better for sure, but that does not mean, that the old one is bad. How does the spacer work? Does it touch both the inner and outer bearings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigi_H Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 No it doesn't. This wouldn't work. The outer races of the bearings are placed in the hub like usual. This will determine the size of the spacer. The spacer is now between the inner races and fixes them, when the nut is tightened hard. The length of the spacer will define clearance of the bearing. Best example picture I found is like this: Imagine the shaft inside is your stub axle and the hub is missing, but the races are there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uninformed Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 (edited) Ok, there is definitely some confusion between us , terminology’s and translation. Inner bearing = the bearing at back of hub Outer bearing = the bearing at hub nut The spacer is a piece of tube to a set length. It goes between the two bearings You picture is a bit vague and looks like two bearings on a shaft . Best I can tell is a spacer between the two bearings… Given the later set up has the wheel bearings at a closer spacing, using the Td5 parts will not work. Making your own is a whole different story. Edited February 3, 2022 by uninformed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossberg Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 7 hours ago, uninformed said: It may indeed be a 90 axle assembly. It is my understanding that the 90 (200Tdi era) used a AEU2522 CV with separate drive flange where as the Disco 1 of that era (same wheel bearings spacing) used a one piece stub shaft with integral flange. it should have a big Railko bush at top of swivel housing as the D1 had the standard TRB. 90/110 front stub axle from that era is FRC4320. The bronze thrust bush for the CV should be able to be fitted on the bench. If you are going to run the CV stub shaft oil seal and do not want to heat the stub axle, put the bronze bush in the freezer. Use an appropriate size socket and drift it in nice and true. Making sure the stub axle is well supported and won’t move around is the best help to start with. Thanks Uninformed. I really appreciate your sharing your knowledge. Would these normally be fitted with a press without any heating or cooling? I may be able to get a friend to press it in for me. That is interesting about the defender and the discovery axle. I am sorry but I don't know the difference between the top bushes. Is there a visible difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossberg Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 This is view of the swivel housing. Can you tell which type this is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uninformed Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 @Mossberg some blokes would press, some would “knock in” with a drift and hammer. Some like a press because it’s nice and progressive and you can set things up true/square, some like the simplicity of knocking in and will often have specific tools they have turned up for doing so, which also helps keep things aligned. A little bit of diff oil won’t hurt with installing, a finger smear in the stub and around the bush. Go easy and make sure it’s not going in crooked. Re the top swivel pin, my vague memory says they look the same or very similar outside, but I’ve only had a early one in hand once , and a while ago. One thing I did notice different between my 98’ 110 and some 94’ D1 swivel housings, the D1 still had the drain and level plugs, the 110 only the fill plug. This could be age and not model related though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 The swivel filler plug above the steering arm was deleted on 300tdi when the swivels became one shot grease filled IIRC. My 1989 110CSW has oil filled swivels with the filler plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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