2016 Range Rover Sport random errors and no start

[Escape]

I know this is a long shot because it's such a recent vehicle, but here goes.

I'm trying to help out a friend with a 2016 Sport TDV6. Last week he got a 'performance limited' error on the dash but the car kept driving normally, except for the cooling fan that came on and off at random. Even with the engine off and lowish temperature. Exterior temperature was also incorrectly displayed at 3°C instead of around 20°C. I read the fault codes, plenty there but none made much sense apart from 'fan control circuit short to ground' and 'fan control open circuit'. Others were for glow plugs, O2 sensors, fuel pump etc. I could clear most, some returned and others were added, so not much help. The other odd thing was that I could not reset the service interval, because 'conditions not met'. This had been the case after the service a couple of months ago as well but I didn't think much of it at the time.

He made it home, and then was no longer able to start the car. I brought over my Ctek just in case (battery was replaced a few months ago but you never know) and tried to read the fault codes again but this time I couldn't even access the engine ECU. Going through some other systems revealed a CANbus error and some other, seemingly random codes. I had read about problems with the earth points in the front wheel wells so cleaned all of those. They were in pretty good shape, no corrosion or any other signs of poor connections. Checked and cleaned the ones at the battery and in the engine bay as well. No improvement, still no start and no communication with the engine ECU. The dash shows seemingly random faults: parking brake (which luckily was in fact working, so we could move the car!), DSC, TPMS, ...

I really want to avoid taking his car to the stealer, but don't know what else to check. CANbus is a bit out of my league and I'm not about to tear down the dashboard to look for other earth points. Anyone know of similar problems and hopefully a solution?

Filip

[simonr]

Earth points would have been my first conclusion - however, the more I read, the more I thought CANBUS.

Then you confirmed a CAN fault!

If you can access anything on a CAN network (even the OBDC connector), measure the resistance between CAN High & Low with the battery disconnected.  It should read 60 Ohms (or close to that).

You will easily see if the resistance is much higher (indicating a break), much lower (a short) or 120 Ohm, indicating one of the two terminations is disconnected.  If that is the case, try unplugging & re-plugging modules to see if you can get it back to 60 Ohm.  One termination is usually inside the ECU and the second inside the most important / biggest thing on that network (instrument display for example).  My suspicion would be a loose / dirty connector on something.

The seals in the connectors are often only rated waterproof for 3 years - after that, you may get water ingress.

If you find a dodgy connector, unplug it, spray contact cleaner liberally inside, pack it with petrollium jelly and reconnect.  That should fix it long term.  The jelly just keeps the water out.

I have a recurrent problem with the SRS warning light on my RRS.  Every few years I have to repeat the contact cleaner & Petrollium jelly trick. 

[Escape]

Thanks Simon, that's very useful info. Unfortunately I don't have a wiring diagram detailing the connector pins so don't know which pins to use to check resistance. I could unplug and clean the modules that are accessible, like the engine ECU, to start.

[Willie MacLeod]

Yellow/black and yellow/brown wires twisted together are what you are looking for.  You should be able to test from the diagnostics socket pin 6 and 14 I think?  Wiring diagrams available online for that age of RR sport, not sure what the protocol is here for linking to other sites but a quick search should bring a copy up.  

I had similar issues when I had left my handbrake ECU disconnected on my Discovery 3 and the lack of CANBUS communication with the dash faults/lack of computer diagnostics initially had me thinking I had a serious issue until I realised what it was.  I'd unplug every connection I could get to on the CANBUS high speed network and clean up as suggested.  The wiring diagram will give you a list of every high speed CAN connection and if you can unplug/replug them if the issue still isn't resolved try testing the CAN wiring one length at a time.

[P38 Paul]

Hi Filip, just a long shot but have you tried disconnecting the battery overnight to see if that resets anything (sort of like a reboot) other than that I can't be of any help to you. Good luck regards Paul.

[Escape]

I went back yesterday, armed with the info in this thread and a wiring diagram I managed to find online. Thanks again for the help!

The second connector I took off seems to be the culprit: full of green corrosion and rust. 😞 Well at least we've found the problem. I should have tried this earlier, but was a bit hesitant to rip things apart. The engine ECU is a snug fit and needs to come out to unplug. Unfortunately, both male and female connectors seem to far gone to fix with cleaning. One of the pins broke off, probably rusted half way through and stuck in the female side when I pulled the connectors apart.

To get the car running again we'll need a new ECU or get the broken pin fixed and ideally a new female connector to splice into the wiring loom. Not looking forward to that, it's a lot of wires and a very little space to work in. Apparently Bosch does offer a repair service for the ECU, the connector seems to be harder to find.

[Escape]

I forgot to post an update on this.

We sent the ECU to Bosch to repair the connector, which they did. But they couldn't offer any warranty because of possible water damage. It took me some time to get the replacement connector with new pins wired into the car wire loom (afterwards I discovered there was an easier way, by further dismantling the old connector) but unfortunately without success. So nothing left but to take the car to the local main dealer. Ironically when dropping it of, one of the mechanics commented on the reliability of the old Range Rovers compared to the new ones with their tendency for electronic problems. I was using my P38 as a tow car, never thought I'd hear a LR mechanic (or any mechanic other than a real enthusiast) praise a P38 as reliable!

The dealer tried the ECU in another car, also without success. So a new one was ordered and programmed to the car. That seems to have cured it, though there was one more instance where the car wouldn't start. If I'm asked to do maintenance, I'll make sure to check the connectors and give them a good clean.

A happy end, but it didn't come cheap... And I feel rather bad, as it's the second time I gave it my best shot to help him with a more recent Range Rover and both times I failed and only added time to the repair. 😞

[Simon_CSK]

On 1/25/2023 at 2:51 PM, Escape said:

I never thought I'd hear a LR mechanic (or any mechanic other than a real enthusiast) praise a P38 as reliable!

 

At the moment my road going Range Rovers are in the following state:-

L322 Vogue SE (Hack) in the garage having failed MOT on emissions and beyond my skill to repair.

L322 Vogue in the garage with a transmission problem which is beyond my skill to repair.

P38 Vogue in the garage with a starting issue that is beyond my skill to repair

Sport in my drive with a soft brake pedal which has completely baffled me as I only replaced a pipe for the MOT and no cannot get it to bleed up.

No Range Rover is reliable!!

[Escape]

On 2/1/2023 at 9:14 PM, Simon_CSK said:

P38 Vogue in the garage with a starting issue that is beyond my skill to repair

 

No Range Rover is reliable!!

Curious as to what the starting issue is (sorry if I missed that post!). As long as you can enter the EKA to disable the immobiliser if needed, everything else should be pretty straightforward.

And I certainly can't complain about the reliability of my Range Rovers. My P38 diesel left me stranded once when the engine oil pump failed (a couple of days before leaving for Ladoga, luckily not in that car!), but the V8s have always gotten me home. The one I've been driving since the Workshop fire in 2015 was bought 10 years ago for £1000 of £1500. Partly stripped because it had a nice interior and then run on a limited budget and still going strong. She may look rather tatty inside and out, being a workhorse, but always gets the job done. 😉 

[elbekko]

37 minutes ago, Escape said:

but the V8s have always gotten me home

Didn't you have to fly home from the UK once because of a broken shifter in Piper?

Up to a few years ago I would've agreed on the apparently reliability of a P38, but these days I can't say I still agree. Then again, mine is closing in on 400k km, so I guess some of it can be forgiven. And not being used enough is the worst part of it all, I think.

[Escape]

4 hours ago, elbekko said:

Didn't you have to fly home from the UK once because of a broken shifter in Piper?

Up to a few years ago I would've agreed on the apparently reliability of a P38, but these days I can't say I still agree. Then again, mine is closing in on 400k km, so I guess some of it can be forgiven. And not being used enough is the worst part of it all, I think.

You're right, I had forgot about that one... I must have blocked the memory, as it was a real disappointment. We had come over to UK mainly to do a playday at Slab Common, but never made it there. 😞 Luckily there was another P38 back home to tow the trailer to go back and recover the first one. Which proves one is indeed not enough. 😁

[Simon_CSK]

Mostly mine get me home but that still doesn't make them reliable.

[Escape]

On 2/3/2023 at 8:58 AM, Escape said:

And I certainly can't complain about the reliability of my Range Rovers. My P38 diesel left me stranded once when the engine oil pump failed (a couple of days before leaving for Ladoga, luckily not in that car!), but the V8s have always gotten me home. The one I've been driving since the Workshop fire in 2015 was bought 10 years ago for £1000 of £1500. Partly stripped because it had a nice interior and then run on a limited budget and still going strong. She may look rather tatty inside and out, being a workhorse, but always gets the job done. 😉 

I jinxed it... 😞

I spent most of yesterday waiting for a flatbed and then being miserable in the passenger seat as my P38 was recovered home. I was halfway to Slovenia when the V8 overheated, presumably because the thermostat failed to open. Worst thing is, I was on my way to Ljubljana for a valentines weekend with my better half, who was already there for work. The airline cancelled my flight on Friday morning at the last minute, without much info (I had to call them myself to confirm) and importantly without offering an alternative. Driving there seemed like the only options, so I pretty much set off straight after a long day of meetings and just a quick check of the car. Coolant level was verifies of course and the first leg went very smoothly. I was actually enjoying the trip until things went horribly wrong... Thermostat has already been replaced, tough it tested it and it seemed to work. Maybe an occasional problem? Earlier this year the same Rangie had no problems towing Tommy the Lightweight to Mannington and back, so under much higher load.

[elbekko]

4 hours ago, Escape said:

I jinxed it... 😞

I spent most of yesterday waiting for a flatbed and then being miserable in the passenger seat as my P38 was recovered home. I was halfway to Slovenia when the V8 overheated, presumably because the thermostat failed to open. Worst thing is, I was on my way to Ljubljana for a valentines weekend with my better half, who was already there for work. The airline cancelled my flight on Friday morning at the last minute, without much info (I had to call them myself to confirm) and importantly without offering an alternative. Driving there seemed like the only options, so I pretty much set off straight after a long day of meetings and just a quick check of the car. Coolant level was verifies of course and the first leg went very smoothly. I was actually enjoying the trip until things went horribly wrong... Thermostat has already been replaced, tough it tested it and it seemed to work. Maybe an occasional problem? Earlier this year the same Rangie had no problems towing Tommy the Lightweight to Mannington and back, so under much higher load.

Yeah, sucks Especially strange that the thermostat seems alright...

Still should've let me come get you!

 

[Escape]

Yeah, I would have preferred to find something obviously wrong. Like a thermostat stuck closed. Still, the test drive today went well, temperature rose to a steady 90° and dropped when coasting.

And yes, in hindsight I could have asked (and paid!) you instead of the tow company and then we could have 'enjoyed' a road trip together and have a good talk...