Yoyodyne Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Having unseated a rear spring on my last 2 trips out I think it is time for dislocation (relocation?) cones. What's the difference between the ones that bolt to the top seat and the ones that go on the bottom? Any recommendations ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landy_andy Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Hi, The ones that bolt to the top seat limit your articulation to the length of the cone, the ones that bolt to the lower don't. They also put less sideways stress on the springs as they stay parallel to the chassis rails. I'd get mine from Qt but I'm biased.... Cheers, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Unlike Landy_Andy I do not have a business arrangement with any company so I am unbiased, so I have written a brief overview of the available options The issue with chassis mounted cones is that to guarentee that the spring always reseats the cones tend to have to be quite long, and with longer cones the problem is that when the axle articulates the cones on the side in compression may hit the sring seat on the axle if the springs are soft enough. Maufacturers have used various ways around this, most pack the bumpstops out to prevent the above mentioned collision, Equipe and Scorpion Racing use a stainless steel and nylon slider plate to eliminate the need for a cone, Photo here. Gwyn Lewis has a diffrent design where the cones are hooked to catch the last coil of the spring as it articulates - this ensures that the spring never leaves the cone and therefore allows shorter cones to be used - eliminating the collision issue, Photo here Link to website Photo fitted to my car Axle mounted cones have the advantage that the spring will always move in a predicatble arc as the axle articulates, this allows for much shorter cones and none of the collision isses noted above, Photo's here, and here, and here (these are rock_on_skeeter's homemade axle mounted cones) In my opinion the best solution to the problem of dislocating springs is one that has only recently become available, The X-Eng X-Spring, a telescopic spring that also forms an axle mounted cone, See here for a better explanation, if Iwere buying again X-eng is where my cash would be going Hope this helps Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landy_andy Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Unlike Landy_Andy I do not have a business arrangement with any company so I am unbiased, so I have written a brief overview of the available optionsThe issue with chassis mounted cones is that to guarentee that the spring always reseats the cones tend to have to be quite long, and with longer cones the problem is that when the axle articulates the cones on the side in compression may hit the sring seat on the axle if the springs are soft enough. Maufacturers have used various ways around this, most pack the bumpstops out to prevent the above mentioned collision, Equipe and Scorpion Racing use a stainless steel and nylon slider plate to eliminate the need for a cone, Photo here. Gwyn Lewis has a diffrent design where the cones are hooked to catch the last coil of the spring as it articulates - this ensures that the spring never leaves the cone and therefore allows shorter cones to be used - eliminating the collision issue, Photo here Link to website Photo fitted to my car Axle mounted cones have the advantage that the spring will always move in a predicatble arc as the axle articulates, this allows for much shorter cones and none of the collision isses noted above, Photo's here, and here, and here (these are rock_on_skeeter's homemade axle mounted cones) In my opinion the best solution to the problem of dislocating springs is one that has only recently become available, The X-Eng X-Spring, a telescopic spring that also forms an axle mounted cone, See here for a better explanation, if Iwere buying again X-eng is where my cash would be going Hope this helps Lewis Hi Lewis, Excellent reply.... Simon's springs are a superb idea and if the cheque book extends to a set then that's where I'd also spend the money. However, if your on a tight budget then there are deffinate advantages with axle mounted cones be them be home made our purchased from a retailer. Cheers, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 I do not have a business arrangement with any company. But I do run a Gwyn Lewis kit (gwyns front cones soon ), but with Cones and rear arms from Andy (no front cranked arms). But it all comes down to how much you want to spend and how/what you are going to use it for. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Im totally corrupt but that aside......... personally I'll stick with axle mounted, less banging and popping, light and small, easy to make Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Yep Jez's were inspiration (read blatant copying) for those on rock-on-skeeter's 90 in the photo's I posted above, cheap and they do the job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 A fraction of the cost of certain other 'colourful' dislocation systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoyodyne Posted February 16, 2007 Author Share Posted February 16, 2007 Funny how so many of these websites do not put prices on things! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Turner Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 In my opinion the best solution to the problem of dislocating springs is one that has only recently become available, The X-Eng X-Spring, a telescopic spring that also forms an axle mounted cone, See here for a better explanation, if Iwere buying again X-eng is where my cash would be goingHope this helps Lewis Well i'm not to sure about these!!!! what happen's when you go over a steep bank and the back axle go's light? I'm asking because a normal...i'e a single spring will stop pushing and just go light, but will the extra spring's (as there's one each side) give enough push to put you onto your roof????? Don't shoot me it's just my tuppence worth on the subject, so over to you Si. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 good point, and what about plastic cones do you reckon they would work? cheaper, no twanging, dont rust/need painting (not that i have ever painted mine!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Well i'm not to sure about these!!!! what happen's when you go over a steep bank and the back axle go's light? I'm asking because a normal...i'e a single spring will stop pushing and just go light, but will the extra spring's (as there's one each side) give enough push to put you onto your roof?????Don't shoot me it's just my tuppence worth on the subject, so over to you Si. I think Si's idea is to use shorter, stiffer main springs so they dislocate earlier than a super-soft floppy spring. That way the system is 'dual rate' so on the road you have short, hard springs for running as the manufacturer intends, on flat side slopes(!) there's less body roll but when the axle needs to articulate, the new spring appears and keeps pushing the axle down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedley Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 I think Si's idea is to use shorter, stiffer main springs so they dislocate earlier than a super-soft floppy spring. That way the system is 'dual rate' so on the road you have short, hard springs for running as the manufacturer intends, on flat side slopes(!) there's less body roll but when the axle needs to articulate, the new spring appears and keeps pushing the axle down. That still doesnt answer adrians question tho, if you nose-dive over a bank, as the vehicle weight shift to the front axle, what is the likelyhood that the extra springs push the rear of the vehicle further from the axle and cause and end-over-end roll... Si? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Well, I've not done the maths but... I reckon that your long, floppy spring will be pushing with (say) 100lb of force when the wheel's dropped 6", and 50lb when it's dropped 7". By the time you're at 8" travel, it has dislocated and there's no more force, so no more traction. With Si's setup, by that point the short, stiff spring has dislocated and stopped pushing, but the long, soft spring will be pushing with around 100lb. The benefit is that, the soft spring can still be pushing with 75lb with 7" droop, and 50lb at 8" droop, giving you better articulation. On a steep drop with the numbers above you'd be better off up til the wheel drops 6" since you'd be using shorter, stiffer springs. From there you get less reduction in force with every inch of droop (on the soft springs). So yes, it would be worse off in the extreme case, but better than if you achieved the same droop/articulation performance with really long soft springs. I'm sure Si will be along shortly to debunk my interpretation of his technology... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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