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Dislocation Cones


Yoyodyne
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Hi,

The ones that bolt to the top seat limit your articulation to the length of the cone, the ones that bolt to the lower don't. They also put less sideways stress on the springs as they stay parallel to the chassis rails. I'd get mine from Qt but I'm biased.... ;)

Cheers,

Andy

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Unlike Landy_Andy I do not have a business arrangement with any company so I am unbiased, so I have written a brief overview of the available options

The issue with chassis mounted cones is that to guarentee that the spring always reseats the cones tend to have to be quite long, and with longer cones the problem is that when the axle articulates the cones on the side in compression may hit the sring seat on the axle if the springs are soft enough.

Maufacturers have used various ways around this, most pack the bumpstops out to prevent the above mentioned collision, Equipe and Scorpion Racing use a stainless steel and nylon slider plate to eliminate the need for a cone, Photo here. Gwyn Lewis has a diffrent design where the cones are hooked to catch the last coil of the spring as it articulates - this ensures that the spring never leaves the cone and therefore allows shorter cones to be used - eliminating the collision issue, Photo here Link to website Photo fitted to my car

Axle mounted cones have the advantage that the spring will always move in a predicatble arc as the axle articulates, this allows for much shorter cones and none of the collision isses noted above, Photo's here, and here, and here (these are rock_on_skeeter's homemade axle mounted cones)

In my opinion the best solution to the problem of dislocating springs is one that has only recently become available, The X-Eng X-Spring, a telescopic spring that also forms an axle mounted cone, See here for a better explanation, if Iwere buying again X-eng is where my cash would be going

Hope this helps

Lewis :)

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Unlike Landy_Andy I do not have a business arrangement with any company so I am unbiased, so I have written a brief overview of the available options

The issue with chassis mounted cones is that to guarentee that the spring always reseats the cones tend to have to be quite long, and with longer cones the problem is that when the axle articulates the cones on the side in compression may hit the sring seat on the axle if the springs are soft enough.

Maufacturers have used various ways around this, most pack the bumpstops out to prevent the above mentioned collision, Equipe and Scorpion Racing use a stainless steel and nylon slider plate to eliminate the need for a cone, Photo here. Gwyn Lewis has a diffrent design where the cones are hooked to catch the last coil of the spring as it articulates - this ensures that the spring never leaves the cone and therefore allows shorter cones to be used - eliminating the collision issue, Photo here Link to website Photo fitted to my car

Axle mounted cones have the advantage that the spring will always move in a predicatble arc as the axle articulates, this allows for much shorter cones and none of the collision isses noted above, Photo's here, and here, and here (these are rock_on_skeeter's homemade axle mounted cones)

In my opinion the best solution to the problem of dislocating springs is one that has only recently become available, The X-Eng X-Spring, a telescopic spring that also forms an axle mounted cone, See here for a better explanation, if Iwere buying again X-eng is where my cash would be going

Hope this helps

Lewis :)

Hi Lewis,

Excellent reply.... Simon's springs are a superb idea and if the cheque book extends to a set then that's where I'd also spend the money. However, if your on a tight budget then there are deffinate advantages with axle mounted cones be them be home made our purchased from a retailer.

Cheers,

Andy

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In my opinion the best solution to the problem of dislocating springs is one that has only recently become available, The X-Eng X-Spring, a telescopic spring that also forms an axle mounted cone, See here for a better explanation, if Iwere buying again X-eng is where my cash would be going

Hope this helps

Lewis :)

Well i'm not to sure about these!!!! what happen's when you go over a steep bank and the back axle go's light? I'm asking because a normal...i'e a single spring will stop pushing and just go light, but will the extra spring's (as there's one each side) give enough push to put you onto your roof?????

Don't shoot me it's just my tuppence worth on the subject, so over to you Si.

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Well i'm not to sure about these!!!! what happen's when you go over a steep bank and the back axle go's light? I'm asking because a normal...i'e a single spring will stop pushing and just go light, but will the extra spring's (as there's one each side) give enough push to put you onto your roof?????

Don't shoot me it's just my tuppence worth on the subject, so over to you Si.

I think Si's idea is to use shorter, stiffer main springs so they dislocate earlier than a super-soft floppy spring. That way the system is 'dual rate' so on the road you have short, hard springs for running as the manufacturer intends, on flat side slopes(!) there's less body roll but when the axle needs to articulate, the new spring appears and keeps pushing the axle down.

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I think Si's idea is to use shorter, stiffer main springs so they dislocate earlier than a super-soft floppy spring. That way the system is 'dual rate' so on the road you have short, hard springs for running as the manufacturer intends, on flat side slopes(!) there's less body roll but when the axle needs to articulate, the new spring appears and keeps pushing the axle down.

That still doesnt answer adrians question tho, if you nose-dive over a bank, as the vehicle weight shift to the front axle, what is the likelyhood that the extra springs push the rear of the vehicle further from the axle and cause and end-over-end roll...

Si?

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Well, I've not done the maths but...

I reckon that your long, floppy spring will be pushing with (say) 100lb of force when the wheel's dropped 6", and 50lb when it's dropped 7". By the time you're at 8" travel, it has dislocated and there's no more force, so no more traction.

With Si's setup, by that point the short, stiff spring has dislocated and stopped pushing, but the long, soft spring will be pushing with around 100lb. The benefit is that, the soft spring can still be pushing with 75lb with 7" droop, and 50lb at 8" droop, giving you better articulation.

On a steep drop with the numbers above you'd be better off up til the wheel drops 6" since you'd be using shorter, stiffer springs. From there you get less reduction in force with every inch of droop (on the soft springs). So yes, it would be worse off in the extreme case, but better than if you achieved the same droop/articulation performance with really long soft springs.

I'm sure Si will be along shortly to debunk my interpretation of his technology...

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