OT - kit car

[02GF74]

I'm toying with building/buying a type 7 kit car and guess one of two forumers may have built their own kit.

Of the more popular kits, westfield, robin hood, formula and tiger e1, anyone have recommendations or not on these? (DAX are another make but they seem to be very £££). Bear in mind I need to fit in it being 6ft 1 in.

Options.

1. build from scatch according to Ron Champion book. In theory should be cheapest.

2. buy a kit from someone who started but lost interest; various stages from just a bunch of bits to a nearly completed vehcile needing one or 2 jobs for sva.

3. buy completed vehicle, most expenisve but know to be working

I think 1 is out since this will be very time consuming (unlike Les who rebuild 2 engines in a w/e it took me 7 months to replace a pair of c/heads and v8 timing cover!), I don't think my weldinig is up to the standard I would like and it requires a jig/flat surface to ensure the chasis is correct.

2. probably best option as the seller will have taken the hit cost wise plus will have accumulated the parts; there will be unknonws like condition of g/box, engine etc. plus some room for customisation eg. fitting 16 V astra engine say, seat and pedal position for tall persons.

3. most expensive but ready to play.

hmmmm, what to do.....

[John_T]

Tricky one!!

From my recent experiece I would take the financial hit and go for option3.

I went down the option 2 route, got distracted by another project and ended up binning the Dutton having pulled it apart, redesigned the body and tried umpteen different engines over a period of 10 years!!

The bottom line is time and focus. If you don't have them clearly set out (and be honest with yourself) go for option 3.

Ah well....... thats my perspective twisted by experience!

[Mark90]

Do you want a car to drive and hence the options are cost based? Or do you want the 'joy' of building something?

You need to be realistic with your appraisal of your time and skills or you'll just be the next person trying to shift a half finished project on ebay.

A part finished project, if most parts are there and usable, is probably the most cost effective solution.

The problem with part finished projects is that you are dealing what what someone else has already done and the standard of people work varys considerably. I think this tends to be less of a problem with finished cars as the people who finish then tend to be better engineers anyway, and if it's been through an SVA that gives you some confidence in the build. There is always a certain element of this with any vehicle that has been modified from standard, ie most landrovers, but with ground up builds it's always going to be more so dependant on the builds skills and standards.

I'd love to do a ground up build of some thing 7-esque myself, but realisticlly I don't have the time, space, money, or the fabrications skills.

[02GF74]

I'd love to do a ground up build of some thing 7-esque myself, but realisticlly I don't have the time, space, money, or the fabrications skills.

yeah me too, the world's first copper tube chasis seven!!

[Fishd]

Options.

1. build from scatch according to Ron Champion book. In theory should be cheapest.

There is an option 1b... you say you're not keen on making the chassis yourself, you could buy one. A good many companies have set up to support the LoCost 7 car and their makers.

http://www.mkengineering.co.uk and http://www.stuart-taylor.co.uk are a couple of links I remember looking at when I was thinking of getting a 7.

EDIT: Another link I've dug up from days of old: http://locostbuilders.co.uk/

[FridgeFreezer]

Buying a kit someone's started and then got the hump with (or died before finish as with one a mate has just bought!) can save £££ over option 1/1b but be prepared to take it all apart and start again - do YOU trust the person you bought from to have done it as you'd like?

The LoCost is a good option as far as I can tell, you can buy anything from a book, to pre-made bits, to a complete car as required. Check Practical Performance car magazine, ignore Kit Car mags they all think they're 100% wonderful and worth 10x what they really are.

Your biggest PITA will be the SVA - have a VERY close look at that before deciding if you really want to build one yourself. I have the Kit Car magazine SVA guide if you want to borrow it, it'll cost you an A4 SAE.

[02GF74]

Buying a kit someone's started and then got the hump with (or died before finish as with one a mate has just bought!) can save £££ over option 1/1b but be prepared to take it all apart and start again - do YOU trust the person you bought from to have done it as you'd like?

The LoCost is a good option as far as I can tell, you can buy anything from a book, to pre-made bits, to a complete car as required. Check Practical Performance car magazine, ignore Kit Car mags they all think they're 100% wonderful and worth 10x what they really are.

Your biggest PITA will be the SVA - have a VERY close look at that before deciding if you really want to build one yourself. I have the Kit Car magazine SVA guide if you want to borrow it, it'll cost you an A4 SAE.

arrggghhhhh!!! why didn't ya post the stuff about kit car mags before I went out a lunchtime to whs!!???

I'll take you up on the SVA info; if you pm your address.

Got my beady eye on a couple of kits but if they go too high then be looking at complete vehicle; customise it a bit with a 4 branch copper tubing exhaust and 16 v astra egnine. There is a v12 robin hood for sale on RH website, comes complete with donor card.

Has anyone come across a gearbox adapter for astra 2.0 16V engine to sierra 5 speed (type 9 whatever that means) gearbox? (probably be in the mags ads part when I get round to reading).

[Mark90]

Has anyone come across a gearbox adapter for astra 2.0 16V engine to sierra 5 speed (type 9 whatever that means) gearbox? (probably be in the mags ads part when I get round to reading).

You can probably get them at a price. How about an Omega box? Good strong box but 1st is a bit low. Someone I know is thinking about using an Omega box to mate to the red top going in his escort but for the hillclimbs/sprints etc that it will be doing such a short 1st won't be used at all. Although it may only be an interim measure while he decides if the red top is staying - he's a bit old school, lotus twin cam or pinto is more his usual style.

Another option (that I can see apealing to you ) is to get the belhousing from an automatic Omega as the bell housing is seperate from the main box, unlike the manual Vauxhall boxes. Then you can chop this and weld it to a similarly chopped bellhousing from the manual box of your choice. Infact if you got the right manual box with seperate bell housing you may be able to fit the Omega auto bell housing direct, with a bit of modification of course.

[jeremy996]

I've never started a kit car in my life but I have finished a few for myself and other people.

As you can guess from that opener, my first choice would be to buy and finish an abandoned project, BUT there were sage words in the previous replies about being honest about your own capabilities and your ability to focus on the final result.

The best 7 kit is the Caterham, but it is bl**dy expensive and a bit small, unless you buy a late long body, (not really a kit - you can build one in a weekend!). The Westfield is probably the next best and 6' 1" should fit. The Tiger is a less easy build than the Westfield, but the final result can be really good. The best bang for buck, IMHO, is the Robin Hood, but make sure you fit - I did but I am only 6'. Your height may be less of an issue than the size of the pedal box! - I can only drive a Caterham in pukka driving boots, normal shoes are too big for the space.

Unfinished kits are normally cheap, but you must expect to undo what's been done and do it again - most kits get abandoned because the builder finds it too much like hard work.

SVA can be a nightmare with older kits, so beware of the long abandoned project. I finished a pre-litigation Westfield and getting it through was a marathon as the only way to get it compliant was to start with the SVA guide and go though the built car item by item changing things to suit. I know that the owner, once it had got the SVA and was registered, changed the compliant items for the originals, as he was after the look.

I have seen a few of the Ron Champion cars, mainly at the kit car shows and most are really poorly finished. If its just a toy for you, than this won't matter much but if you want to sell it afterwards, you will find it is not worth the sum of its parts. A used Caterham is an expensive vehicle, so the original price premium may be somewhat recouped on re-sale.

As a Land Rover person is a Dakar too much of a busman's holiday?

[landy_andy]

Hi,

Before getting into Landy's I built 2 kitcars. The first was over 10yrs ago and it was a 7 type made by a company called Racecorp and my second was a Porsche 550 Spyder (loose) replica based on a Skoda Estelle !!!

I built both for the challenge but thats where the real problem came for me... once there built you just want to build another... and another. So, I got a Landy.... lots of opportunity to make bits etc...

My advice is if you really want a 7 type then you won't go far wrong with a Westfield, loads of support and there are alot of good tidy examples for sale second hand. You also won't have to go through the SVA nightmare.... and I mean nightmare... my Spyder got failed the first time because a 2" monza filler cap had not got 2.5mm radiused edges on the hinge !! Second time round they pulled it up on a locking nut for a wing mirror not having the same radius on the nut flats !!! The mirror was a brand new Kawasaki motor bike part that's on thousands of bikes worldwide.

So, take my advice and get a good second hand vehicle, skip all the SVA carp and go enjoy it whilst the sun shines.

Cheers,

Andy

[pugwash]

Are you absolutely sure you want a 7 type car?

Have a look at a fisher fury- very pretty little car and i fitted in just fine - being 6'1 and 24 stone that's quite rare for a kit car!

I presonally would build the kit from scratch- but be prepared to spend a least a modicum of money on it.

The more simple kits can be built Very quickly- i reckoned on a fury taking just 4 months in total which would be building most evenings and weekends. Of course the more trimming and finishing you do the longer it will take- but they never take that long.

I really really like the dax's, as well as the tigers. The daxs are expensive but are very well put together, and if you use their camber compensation system you can get truly exceptional handling.

As someone said below- you can buy part built kits but be prepared for some less than perfect build techniques!

[Steve H]

02GF74, If you haven't found it already, try this site http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/, the locost is the car that Ron Champion detailed in his book"How to build a sports car for less than 250pounds", ( sorry our keyboards don't have the pounds symbol on them these days), the book is published by Haynes, the site answers all the many questions the book raises & doesn't answer, also contains links to a heap of 7 kit & component manufacturers, I'm slowly working on a Locost, it'll get quicker when the youngest goes to school next year, then I can get busy on my 100" hybrid, Hmmmm, maybe There's even a miserableoldgit posts on the site, no doubt theres more than one! HTH, Cheers, Steve.

[Niall_CSK]

There are many very apt words of wisdom above, particularly about focus (not Ford) and being adictive. I think you can see a trend from the replies why so many of us frustrated mechano set builders got into LRs.

I built a Talon years ago, if anyone can remember that, VW chassis with gullwing doors, never did get it registered although it was roadworthy, I ended up giving it away!

Pity you just missed the Kit Car show at Donnington Park a couple of weeks ago, it was actually pretty decent with a lot of owners cars around, so you could compare the dream with the reality.

I agree the Fury is a lovely little car and well engineered.

Agree with Fridge, the kit kar mags are not much use, just catalogues really, they have gone the way of LRE of recent years with "If I was chocolate I would eat myself Philby" leading the pack.

PPC is a very good mag and they did a Locost build up over a few issues recently based on the Ron Champion book if you can get back issues.

Practical Classics is currently running a Westie build up as well which is another good mag.

[02GF74]

There are many very apt words of wisdom above,

Agree with Fridge, the kit kar mags are not much use, just catalogues really,

^^^^ indeed; that is why I was fishing for opnions.

Bought 'which kit' and 'kit car' and there is nowt in there of use, maybe the adverts. If you ever feel like complaining about an LR mage you should read one of these and that will change your mind.

Unfinished kits are normally cheap, but you must expect to undo what's been done and do it again - most kits get abandoned because the builder finds it too much like hard work.

Saw one yesterday, hmmmmm, started then given to someone else to finish who had gone bust; result being surface rust on every mild steel panel - so even more work than starting from scratch to rectify that. Seeing something like that brought home the reality that I am not going to want to spend my time building one (unless I had a heated spacious garage which I don't) so it is a search for ready made or very close to completion kits.

Thanks for the useful replies (apart from the copper tube ones!)