Geminidawn Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I have a 3.9 fuel injected V8 Recently water got into the fuel system. I found out when the the engine failed to fire, I removed the spark plugs and found them soaking wet. The fuel lines and tank all had traces of water contamination. I drained everything and dried everything off, refilled with fresh fuel but still the spark plugs fail to fire. The fuel injection system has a wiring loom far beyond my wiring abilities. As I never encountered this problem before I have no idea of the depth of damage done. Where in your opinion should I start looking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 If you explain how this water contamination occurred then people can give you more useful advice. If it was just some poor quality fuel, then it will be the fuel system at fault - pump, lines, filters, pressure regulator, injectors. If it was because you parked the truck in a pond and everything filled with water, then obviously there's more to choose from. EFi wiring looks daunting but if you understand what the bits do it's actually very simple and logical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 If you only have traces of water in your fuel due to poor quality fuel, then a couple of teaspoons of Meths in the fuel tank will usually cure the problem. An old trick I was taught in Oz where the quality of fuel can be doubtfull. Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geminidawn Posted November 8, 2007 Author Share Posted November 8, 2007 The fuel lines were replaced recently as the original ones were rusty I guess the contamination could of happened around then, or it could be poor quality fuel, all in all there was a about a cup full. The engine seemed to run fine until the tank ran dry then all the water seemed to come through at once. Although the tank was topped up since it was too late as the water was already in the system and on its way to the cylinder head. The fact that all the spark plugs now appear dead it can only lead me to believe something has shorted out somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 How are you diagnosing the "dead" spark plugs? I can't see how water in the fuel system would suddenly stop the coil from working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geminidawn Posted November 8, 2007 Author Share Posted November 8, 2007 How are you diagnosing the "dead" spark plugs? I can't see how water in the fuel system would suddenly stop the coil from working. No spark, when I removed them they were very wet, cleaned them up and dried them off but nothing. Maybe I am wrong in thinking the water caused a short somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Attryde Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I would suggest trying a new set of plugs as this will tell you wether or not your existing plugs are knackered or you have a problem with your ignition system as well. Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 cleaned them up and dried them off but nothing. What sort of nothing? Engine doesn't fire, or when you hold a plug out of the engine against the block there is no spark across it? I wouldn't put new plugs in till you're sure all the water is out of the fuel system, have you replaced all the filters and flushed through with clean petrol? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geminidawn Posted November 8, 2007 Author Share Posted November 8, 2007 I would suggest trying a new set of plugs as this will tell you wether or not your existing plugs are knackered or you have a problem with your ignition system as well.Pete. Cheers Pete, I already have them on order, the leads and plugs I was going to replace anyway, but due to my geographical location everything has to be orderd in. I just want to get to the heart of the problem and get back on the road asap. I'd hate to wait a week to ten days for the leads and plugs to arrive, fit them and find thats not it, having to go back to the catalogue, going nowhere, while running up a big bill on parts and courier charges. The other alternative is to take it to the local mechanic but he is on the road most of the time and has such a back log of work it will be weeks before he has a chance to even look at it. Hence I posted the problem here to try and sort it myself as soon as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geminidawn Posted November 8, 2007 Author Share Posted November 8, 2007 [quote name='FridgeFreezer' date='Nov 8 2007, 11:23 AM' post='196445' Engine doesn't fire, or when you hold a plug out of the engine against the block there is no spark across it? I wouldn't put new plugs in till you're sure all the water is out of the fuel system, have you replaced all the filters and flushed through with clean petrol? Yes and Yes. Flushing out the system was the first thing I did. The plugs when held against the engine block no spark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Yes and Yes. Flushing out the system was the first thing I did. The plugs when held against the engine block no spark. Are the plugs completely dry? If there's moisture on them the spark will take the path of least resistance. Also the standard spark is weaker than a sick kitten so you may struggle to see it in daylight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Attryde Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Yeah I ment to suggest using a new (known to be completely dry) plug rather than just putting new plugs in the engine and seeing if it ran. Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Dousing the plug in WD40 may help, however I get the feeling if water has got up in the ceramic insulator inside the plug it's not going to be very happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geminidawn Posted November 8, 2007 Author Share Posted November 8, 2007 Looks like I'll have to go through everything again with a fine tooth comb, remove the spark plugs again and stick them in the oven, drain the lines and probably stick a small fan heater under the bonnet for a while. With the onset of winter the condensation is only going to be adding to the problem. I'll let you know how I get on second time around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Take the coil lead off the distributor, and hold it close to the engine with a pair of insulated pliers -if it sparks then look further down the road, rotor arm, cap, and then plugs. I'd be suprised if one wetting of the plugs is still affecting it tbh -you sure the headgasket hasn't gone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Water in the fuel system will not affect the rest of the electrical system, except maybe the plugs. Are you confident you have flushed out the fuel rail and injectors ok ? You may have your cup of water being fired into the cylinders... Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Symptom = no spark, even out of the engine... I am going from first principles here, water in the fuel might be a side issue, or a non-existant one if it was a small amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 I have read and reread this thread and find it rather odd. Couple of qs Why do you actually think / know you have got water in the system ? Did the engine play up and if so what were the symtoms ? How old are the plugs / cap and rotor arm and coil ? What makes are they all or are they all genuine ? From this you'll see I am just wondering if the 2wet" plugs is a fuel soaked plug and its that way cos something is causing them not to spark and hence wet, but its fuel not water ? Knowing the issues prior to it packing up will help diagnose, the plugs should for a V8 be NGKs Please advise Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geminidawn Posted November 9, 2007 Author Share Posted November 9, 2007 Why do you actually think / know you have got water in the system ? Did the engine play up and if so what were the symtoms ? How old are the plugs / cap and rotor arm and coil ? What makes are they all or are they all genuine ? The vehicle was in getting the high pressure oil and fuel lines replaced along with the a new fuel filter last spring as I said the old ones were beginning to rust. The guy who done the job did most of the work outside. Parked up outside a workshop exposed to Irish weather no fuel lines or filter on it I can't imagine it was too hard to get contaminated. When the truck ceased to work I took off the new fuel filter, both water and petrol poured out of it. Prior to the the truck coming to a complete hault it spluttered and farted. The engine is 93, I got it about 18 months ago the plugs and coil were on it when I got it, they look old as I said I was going to replace them anyway. Make of the coil unknown, Plugs NGK All the plugs showed signs of water droplets. I found about half a cup in the lines and filter and another half sitting in the bottom of the tank when I flushed out the system. As V8 freak said it looks like water was fired into the cylinders. The new leads, spark plugs and yet another fuel filter will not be here until next week looks like I have until then to open everything back up apply some heat and get it purged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 I still think it is worth checking to see you have a spark from coil lead, it will at least confirm that side of it is still alive -otherwise new plugs might not be needed.......... and its a 5 minute check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 The main thing with fault diagnosis is to be methodical, and dont jump to conclusions. As others have suggested 1st thing is to see if you get spark from main coil lead, then follow down , the line, e.g. see if spark from end of plug lead, dont rely on checking 1 plug lead, put screwdriver in end of lead and hold adjacent to block, look for spark jump, dont get fingers near metal of screwdriver. It is unlikely that your plugs having been water contaminated are the problem, maybe the odd one . Once you have proved the ign system then go to injection system. HTSH JMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geminidawn Posted November 9, 2007 Author Share Posted November 9, 2007 The main thing with fault diagnosis is to be methodical, and dont jump to conclusions. As others have suggested 1st thing is to see if you get spark from main coil lead, then follow down , the line, e.g. see if spark from end of plug lead, dont rely on checking 1 plug lead, put screwdriver in end of lead and hold adjacent to block, look for spark jump, dont get fingers near metal of screwdriver. It is unlikely that your plugs having been water contaminated are the problem, maybe the odd one . Once you have proved the ign system then go to injection system. HTSH JMHO Either way it looks like I'm in for the long haul. I spoke to the local mechanic and he said if it were a carb job it would be straight forward enough, flush the carb, then check the coil, but the fuel injection system is just adding complications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 fuel injection system is just adding complications. He's talking arse then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geminidawn Posted November 9, 2007 Author Share Posted November 9, 2007 He's talking arse then As I said I have never encountered this problem before so this is all new to me, neither have I had a vehicle with a fuel injection system. He is a trained mechanic I am not, therefore I am not one to judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 As I said I have never encountered this problem before so this is all new to me, neither have I had a vehicle with a fuel injection system. He is a trained mechanic I am not, therefore I am not one to judge. He's a trained arse then FFS this is not at all difficuly DIY jobbie..... IF you really think you have water in the system Empty tank completely, and have it dry out / blow in air line etc Blow fuel pump over with airline Blow air line down pipe between tank and fuel filter (removed) Remove return pipe to tank, extend place end in bucket Blow air line down pipe from other side of filter, this will empty into bucket Fit new filter Reassemble tank Fill tank with NEW Petrol Switch on and allow pump to circulate fuel That will remove 99% of water.......... Remove plugs, disconnect Fuel pump Crank engine - this will remove most of the water in the system refit new plugs, genuine cap leads and new genuine rotor arm Up to this point its easy peasy and you don't need a trained mechanic arse to do this Start it, if not starting then go through diagnostic manual as in Tech Forum and post up here how its gone Once started add one container of FORTE INJECTOR FLUSH to half a tank of fuel, run low before you refill Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.