mutant 90 Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Been looking at rose joints for some suspension and steering mods I'm planing. What I'm wondering is what the best ones to go for? and also how quickly do they wear? on an off road vehicle when they're consantly submerged in mud acting like a grinding paste. Cheers Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Yes Knowing more details of what you're doing would be helpful as the situation/application dictates what's practical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomG Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 I wasn't impressed with the unsealed rose joint on the (orange company's) adjustable panhard rod, it started rattling after several months of offroad use, once it wears you get a metallic clunking sound transmitted up through the chassis. Depending on the application, Johnny joints or the the X-Flex joint look a much better solution for offroad use, see: http://www.exactfabrication.co.uk/products.php http://www.x-eng.co.uk/X-Flex.asp?MID=50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Rose joints wear very badly in almost any off road application, we used to go through a lot of M20 joints in suspension applications, we started on ones that cost £50 each then progressed to £170 each and eventually went to ones that cost £12 they all seemed to wear at about the same rate. We did try some boots for the m20's purchased from rally design i think, they did slow the wear down but as soon as they got damaged the joints died very quickly. As for useing them for steering i wouldn't bother, if you use them to replace a TRE the retaining bolt will only be in single shear and it is almost impossible to stop the bolt/steering arm wearing. I'd just use bigger TRE's for everything that way they are booted and greasable. Here's one way i've used a TRE for a suspension arm. Alternatively, Rakeway do a rose joint that is bushed and booted. The only pic i can find of a similar one of them is on the far right at the bottom of this page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clbarclay Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Thats a neats solution, did you machine the taper insert (I assume its a taper) or can they be readily bought off the shelf? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Thats a neats solution, did you machine the taper insert (I assume its a taper) or can they be readily bought off the shelf? It is a tapered insert that i had made, pretty cheap to have done. The advantage as i see it is that they are greasable, adjustable and rebuildable. And given that theres a bush at the other end of the link they shouldn't see any shock loadings so should last almost forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutant 90 Posted December 23, 2007 Author Share Posted December 23, 2007 I'm looking to fit hydro assist simillar to Steve90's set up and replace the A frame ball joint and trailing arm chassis bushes. I've looked back though the old threads and the subject has been overed a lot. But I'd like your views, are johnny joints worth the extra expence, what's the cost, ease of rebuilding them. Or use the cheaper rose joints and carry spares Cheers Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 further to what dirtzdiesel said, I have m20 rose joints for the rear radiusarms. I used the boots and the bracket holding them encloses them completely, so the boot cant tear. Used since 2001, no play yet. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 I'm looking to fit hydro assist simillar to Steve90's set up and replace the A frame ball joint and trailing arm chassis bushes. I've looked back though the old threads and the subject has been overed a lot. But I'd like your views, are johnny joints worth the extra expence, what's the cost, ease of rebuilding them. Or use the cheaper rose joints and carry sparesCheers Dave IMHO you'd be better off fitting an X-eng wide angle joint in the a-frame rather than re-engineering it to suit something else. Jonny joints are very nice, but the ones that are available off the shelf over here aren't adjustable, but the rebuild kits are quite cheap £10-20. Adjustable "jonny joints" are available from rubicorn express under their trade name "builder ball" If you are starting from scratch you could do a lot worse than giving neil at rakeway a call their joints are very nice. As for the hydro assist ram, i'd favour TRE's every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 90 Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 I agree that the Rose joint probably is not idea but wear does not concern me. The truck is used for comps only these days and It doesn't bother me if I have to put a new one on every couple of events. It only takes 10 mins to change them and they aint pricey! The fact the bolt through the joint is in single sheer has concerned me a little as I have mentioned in the other thread. But its a 3/4 bolt and as soon as I have them it will be fitted with the best quality bolt I can find. If I cant find anything in good enough material I'll get a few specials made. Other than trying it and seeing how the setup performs/lasts I cant really comment any more. As long as the bolt stays tight and straight I can deal with the rest. I know that the track rod end is made of material probably far superior to your average bolt but they too are only in single sheer and the diameter of the taper where it leaves the pitman arm is about 3-4mm less than the bolt ive used. Time will tell, I cant really see any way of using a TRE without having a new pitman arm made up to take them! If anyone does have any ideas I'd love to hear them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthy boy Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 I agree that the Rose joint probably is not idea but wear does not concern me. The truck is used for comps only these days and It doesn't bother me if I have to put a new one on every couple of events. It only takes 10 mins to change them and they aint pricey!The fact the bolt through the joint is in single sheer has concerned me a little as I have mentioned in the other thread. But its a 3/4 bolt and as soon as I have them it will be fitted with the best quality bolt I can find. If I cant find anything in good enough material I'll get a few specials made. Other than trying it and seeing how the setup performs/lasts I cant really comment any more. As long as the bolt stays tight and straight I can deal with the rest. I know that the track rod end is made of material probably far superior to your average bolt but they too are only in single sheer and the diameter of the taper where it leaves the pitman arm is about 3-4mm less than the bolt ive used. Time will tell, I cant really see any way of using a TRE without having a new pitman arm made up to take them! If anyone does have any ideas I'd love to hear them. For the pitman arm, bore out the taper and thread it to match the studded end on a studded rod end. Use a lock nut to secure although it can't come loose as long as it is attached to the drag link. Speaking with Aurora and the nearest environment ot ours is all the quarry and mining stuff they supply. Use PTFE lined as there is less space for carp in the joint, do not use grease and accept they are consumable items. Problem with reuseable ones is that you replace the internals but the outers on all joints will stretch and ovalise. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 For my Suzuki, I had no option but to use rose joint inserts for one of the steering joints. I intend making up some stitched leather boots for them, filled with grease - which I hope will be better than rubber and afford them decent protection in the long term. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutant 90 Posted December 26, 2007 Author Share Posted December 26, 2007 Any one used Mc Gill Motorsports joints and thier neoprene boots? Thinking of giving them a go, if the boots are any good I can't see a reason why the joints shouldn't last as long as a standard TRE. Cheers Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Bates Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 I've bought some joints and boots and miss alignment spacers from Mc Gill for a suspension project and they seem very good. When i ordered them the chap i spoke to said they supply the same joints to the williams F1 team. The service is excellent and their prices are good and everything arrives next day. Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 there are seals available for rod ends and spherical bearings appropriately called 'Seals It' from the States. http://www.sealsit.com/rodend.asp The speedway boys here and in the US use them all the time. Greatly increases their life. Way back in the dim dark distant past when I was heavily involved in Road Racing, AMPEP's line of rod ends were considered about the best, starting with their Black Line (phosphate finish, usually used on F/Ford, F3) Silverline then Goldline with the highest load rating and best liner. I found the the Black Line better than Aurora's offerings, and probably than NMB's stuff too. Used some Silverline but the Goldline stuff was way out of my budget and needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticbadger Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I'm using all Mc Gill joints in my Three Link, steering and rear radius arms. They seem very good quality and th service and knowledge is excellent. Will be getting boots for them as I was concerned about dirt ingress. I will report back in use on wear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderman Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Midwest controls do different grades of joints and well priced to boot http://www.midwestcontrol.com/95.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzaz Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 can a ball joint be used instead of the rose joint, I mean something like the Aframe balljoint? Its sealed and quite heavy duty I think, dont know its max angles tho...could be a limiting factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.