Ryan Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Before I start, we might be needing this: Next, my current set up. I have a 1994 Discovery 300tdi 5 door. I have Britpart heavy duty springs all round (no official lift), along with Britpart shocks. At the front is a winch bumper from 4x4RUS (no winch at this time) and a Southdown steering guard. At the rear there is a detachable towing hitch from Srapiron. Anti-roll bars have been removed front and rear. There are dislocation cones on the rear (chassis mounted). There is usually only me in the vehicle as far as living beings are concerned. I normally have a few bits and bobs in the load bay area along with a box with recovery gear, jack, wheel brace, water, etc. I use it on road 90% of the time, going to play days once a month or so, and so far have done one greenlane weekend. The problem I have is the crashing ride since I changed the springs and shocks. I have a number of fillings, and I feel they may be coming loose! I feel every bump on road, and unless the ground is really soft off road, I feel every bump there as well. I have just collected a Southdown tank guard which has made me realise that the rear end is going to be a lot heavier . I'm looking to replace all of the bushes over the next couple of months to try and track down a clunk, and also because I don't know how old they are. I haven't decided on metalastic or polybush at this time, but I'll leave that arguement discussion for another time . I have had a search of the Discovery threads and I haven't been able to find a previous query matching mine. I have also had a quick peak at the spring data in the tech archives, but they'd might as well be in Greek (which I can't read or speak!). What springs & shocks are advised for what I want: The fronts need to be able to support the extra weight of the steering guard and the winch bumper (and potentially an EP9 at some point in the future - currently consisting on some whispy steam ). The rears need to support the tank guard ('kin heavy!) and the box of bits. In August they will need to support all of the gubbins needed for a two week jaunt to the Alps and back with some laning thrown in. All together, they need to be more comfortable than the current set-up, but also flexible enough when off-roading at play days. Oh, and it all needs to be done for about 50p ...but seriously, I'm not made of money so it all needs to be reasonably priced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Police Spec Range Rover Springs? Last time I bought some, they were the pricely sum of £12 each! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 They saw you coming Rog, they're £9 each now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted January 28, 2008 Author Share Posted January 28, 2008 Before you start FF, I'm not converting to leaf springs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Ryan - cheapest option is RR police spec springs (@£9 each) and standard bushes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted January 28, 2008 Author Share Posted January 28, 2008 Ryan - cheapest option is RR police spec springs (@£9 each) and standard bushes. Is that going to give me the flexibility and improved comfort? What about shocks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyb Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Is that going to give me the flexibility and improved comfort? What about shocks? Police spec springs should cope with the added weight of winch and kit in the back. As for shocks....best compromise on a budget are Procomp ES9000. Mate had them on a 90; brilliant...in a word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Attryde Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Police spec (red/whites) springs lifted the front of mine by something like 2 - 2 1/2" (although mine has a standard bumper it does have a steering guard). And I think Mark on here found them to soft on the rear of his and has had to fit spacers to get the ride height some where near right. HTH Pete. editted to add For shock absorbers speak to David at LLama 4x4 as his rough country shocks seem to work very well and he gives a forum discount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share Posted January 30, 2008 Thanks for the answers guys, but (I don't want to be picky, but it's going to come across that way anyway ) they haven't really addressed what I want to know - at least I don't think so. I can see that the police spec springs will cope with the load, after all they have to cope with a sh*t load of cr@p in the back all of the time. I need to know if they are going to make a difference to the quality of the ride. Am I still going to be rattling around inside? If I go for these, where from? Is it just as easy to go straight to my local stealer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share Posted January 30, 2008 Or am I asking too much wanting to cope with the load, but having a comfier ride? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriso Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 I have been through this process and sympathise completely! Most folk argue that fitting HD springs is a sensible upgrade as it improves cornering. Agreed, but at the cost of comfort as your fillings testify. As you do not want lift, and you do not carry passengers (weight), I would suggest factory fit standard springs with rubber bushes and gas dampers. This will be really compliant (especially without ant roll cars) and feel better both on and off road. The range rover concept of the 1970s was based on soft springs for articulation. Standard disco springs are a development of this as they are duel rated. There are 9 coils, six of which are standard spec and the tightly wound three are heavy duty. I used to work in a kids home, and we had a disco with this suspension set up. It coped with towing a RIB, laning on the strata florida, motorway work and carrying canoes on the roof. All comfortably! ...how many worms are left in that tin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Or am I asking too much wanting to cope with the load, but having a comfier ride? I don't think so, I haven't had a problem with the HD springs. I fitted them to my (now Al's) Range Rover with Monroe gas shocks and it was fine, ride wasn't noticeably harsh but handling was noticeably better (comment from Miketomcat was it rides really nicely) although it never got used in the mud so can't comment on that aspect. Dad's RR is running HD springs and stock shocks and it doesn't seem to have suffered in ride quality or off-road ability. If you know some numbers you can use Trev's spring calculator and a bit of thinking to end up with a well balanced setup using off-the-shelf bits. Nige's 90 is a prime example - zero lift but massive articulation without resorting to bling. I'm sure he did a write-up somewhere but I can't see it in the tech archive To do anything really impressive articulation-wise you probably need to be thinking about raised shock mounts and either dislocation, or X-springs (with forum discount of course ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Police spec springs will leave the disco nose high witout a winch, this is because front spings are shorter than rear springs so this must be taken into account. A freind just fitted red/whites all round to his disco and got a 65mm lift up front with a 40mm lift on the rear. if i were you i would fit red whites to the rear you may end up with a small lift, and some standard rears to the front, the standard rears up front will give you a lift but will then compress when fitted theoreticly giving a level ride however i have never tried this so dont quote me, haha, a freind is wanting a 2" ish lift for his raingie so i reccamended red whites up front these being 17.71" tall verses 16.13 (standard springs) and have a rate that is 20lb/" higer (how many lbs it takes to compress the spring 1" from its 'resting' height (with nowt on top of it) for the back disco hd with winch kit springs are 18.18" tall as opposed to the 15.13 of standard and are very nearly the same rate so should still offer good handleing. I know what i have said means you disco will be lifted and you dont realy want this (good choice ) but you get the idea, finaly what about standard springs? maybe you old ones had sagged a little reducing ride height and fitting new ones will give you a pleasent ride with minimal lift? Will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Muddy - I don't think people intend Ryan to fit police-spec rear springs on the front, I used RR diesel on the front which seem to go well with the police rears, although a glance at Trev's calculator would tell you what the actual rates/lengths are. Part numbers respectively are: NRC2119 - RR Diesel front spring, RHS, Green stripe NRC4305 - RR Diesel front spring, LHS, Red/yellow stripe NRC4304 - RR Police spec rears, red/white stripe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share Posted January 30, 2008 You're all getting complicated on me now. John, I've had a look at the spring calculator and it all goes over my head. What numbers are you talking about? Do I need to know how heavy the truck is under each axle and do something with that? What effect will the RR diesel fronts have, compared to standard Discovery ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 The rate is lbs/in, basically how much weight it takes to compress the spring by 1". Higher number = harder spring = will cope with heavier loads but takes more force to make it flex off-road. Free length is the length the spring starts off, with no weight on. So to cope with higher loads without gaining a lift you need to go harder but not longer (ooo err ) whereas for flex you may want to go soft and long so it actually sits at the same height as standard but the spring will give more travel off-road. Really you need someone like Nige or Trev to explain it as I don't really do these coil things if I can avoid it. The part#s I gave show up as being standard for Disco fronts anyway, so you can probably forget that bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I'm with Chriso ^^^ on this one, fit a set of standard (ie genuine land rover) springs. The Red/Whites will give too much lift at the front but be too soft at the rear for your European trips. Stock will cope quite adequately with the current set up and if the front does sag when the winch goes in you could add spacers (pennies). Re shocks I'd keep what you have until you've changed the springs and then decide where you want to go from there and what you don't like about the ones you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 So, are you saying go back to standard front and rear? Regarding the shocks, I don't know what is going to be best so I need advice on that. If I back to standard OE springs, should I get OE shocks, or would you recommend anything esle - Pro-comp, Rough Country etc? Would I be right in saying that the spring hardness (for want of a better term) dictates how much support there is, and how much it with 'give' over the bumps; and the shocks will dictate how quickly it all reacts and how quickly it stops reacting? I take it that if I find that my rear end is a bit saggy (no comments please ), should I just bump it up with spacers as per the comment re the front if/when I fit a winch? Sorry if I'm going on, but my knowledge on this is non-existent to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Yes, get some NEW genuine standard springs. Your old ones had done 10+ years! Stock Disco springs are quite soft anyway so won't shake your teeth out. I don't think what you've added will affect the front much and while the stock rears could be softer they will cope well with changes in load like having more passengers or loading the rear up for touring. If you later feel you'd like some lift, better spring balance or harder/softer ride we can look at some alternatives but any change would be at the compromise of something else so you do need to know what you want and what you're prepared to loose. I wouldn't get any other shocks just yet if the britpart ones are still servicable and the fronts can be removed/refitted while you change the springs. If they do need replacing then by default I would just get some more cheapo Paddocks ones. Alternatively you might want to get some longer shocks to gain a bit more travel but you're now on a slippery slope and have to decide do you go long with retained springs, long with some form of spring relocation or (with your newly fitted springs) matching the new shock lengths to the spring lengths. If doing this both procomp and rough country have a good range of lengths to choose from (I've got both on my truck ) though with more cash I'd be tempted to consider OME (old man emu, though the range of lengths is more limited) as I don't like the exposed shaft/gaiter debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 Are you bored yet? Thanks Trev, I think I started on the slippery slope sometime ago... Just so you know, I am already getting dislocation from the rear with the current springs, which is probably down to ditching the anti-roll bars. I have chassis mounted dislocation cones. Should I think about the longer shocks now? Due to the fact I am still a technical numpty, is it the length of the shocks that dictates how much the axle is going to articulate, or is it a combination of things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discojmz Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 combination of things tbh anti roll bars are the arch enemy of articulation, next your shocks limit it, then the a frame ball joint (limited angle of movement) and finally the trailing arms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Ryan, if you're coming round to Dan & Jen's tomorrow (err, today even) I'll try to explain it with waving arms and drawing pictures And I've got those CD's for you too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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